Putin's War With Ukraine (and democracy, freedom, self-determination, etc.)

Guys...

No need for the downvotes: it was a very nice PM.
Just he felt it was not on topic for the thread.

 

Yes, I really hope things will chill out a sooner rather than later. The world is different nowadays than in a last century, and another decades of an old-fashioned cold war looks unlikely to me with an internet and all this globalization.
I just in February was considering to offer you guys my old boutique dac, wondering what will you say.. Things changed quickly. May be there is a chance it works other way around as well

 

It's painful. The loss of Russian tubes / audio gear, vodka, and cheap steel case ammo (I understand people have varying opinions on 2nd Amendment) sucks. I had at times thought of visiting Russia or Ukraine. I'm sure wider European tourism in general will be badly hurt in a lot of places.

 

Hello again guys. I guess my reaction on that topic was kind of strong. I am sorry about that. Has every one has voiced their concern - No one wants war. Lets have peace and make the world a better place. I am up for that.

The statement i blacked out above was kind of how one could interpret the statement when people disregard a big part of a defence organization. Tit for tat insult. This is wrong. This is why I have realized I dont want to be part of online discussions where people just add noise and do nothing about anything that would make the world a better place. I dont want to be part of that noise. There are many problem in the world and everyone who have peace are lucky to have it. It start on a personal level as well. I actually want people to do well and I am supportive of people struggling through difficulties. There are conflict zones, potential economical risks coming up and that being said I hope people are doing well. I hope you are doing well, have a content and happy life. Enjoy the small things in life.

 

Ukraine claims they heavily damaged the missile cruiser Moskva, the "Go f**k Yourself" ship. Amazing if true.

 

Russia claims there was a fire that caused a munitions explosion, resulting in the ship needing to be evacuated. Is losing your flagship missile cruiser to gross incompetence better or worse than it being hit by the enemy?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...leet-badly-damaged-blast-interfax-2022-04-13/

 

Obviously the question is why did such a large fire start...

 

https://www.statista.com/chart/14636/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/

I agree. The people who criticize the west are right. This part of the world probably needs to increase its fair share. Data point. However, I have no idea how much is needed etc.

Another positive is that there are companies with defense capabilities in the European part of the world. https://people.defensenews.com/top-100/

 

Russian propaganda outlets seem to have trouble keeping track of their own lies. First they claim the ship has been damaged by an onboard fire and subsequently sunk in a storm. Now they demand retribution. Retribution for what? For bad weather?

 

Sure! Bad weather sent by America!

Looking back to my 1950s childhood, we used to blame the Russians randomly for all sorts of trivial stuff. These days it would be called micro-aggression, and probably be used as an excuse to invade. But it is a symptom of the attitude of the time: thanks for being a major part of beating Germany, Here's some territory, now sod off. How many British or Hollywood movies are there about the Russian contribution to WW2? I guess that stings.

Regarding the ship. Congrats to Ukraine, but brickbats to Russia. Unless there has been better news (hard to regard dead sailors as good news, whatever side) since I last looked, the major loss of life looks like massive lack of competence. Comment on this from the better informed?

 

There was a commentary on it by an ex top official from the western part and he said that amateurs talk about "operations" and specialists talk about logistics. It's likely poor maintenance and strategically poor planning.

I read an opinion piece that the media kind of failed to bring out the facts about the improvements in Ukrainian military. Really, id rather not add salt to anyones wounds but the western media often likes to emote on things it does not fully understand. We also have great media outlets and I guess these serve people who really want understand and learn about the world.

Besides that in the in parallel of whats going on in Ukraine we can see some countries wanting to join Nato. I think It must be said clearly, these countries motivation to join is keeping their region stable. They Do not have any hostile ambitions, they have built up a normal functioning country over decades or centuries and want to keep it that way. Nato is a defense alliance. All else is propaganda. Whether they join is up to them to decide.

 

Any boat, of any size, from dingy to aircraft carrier, is in a hostile environement. Life saving is part of the drill: drills and procedures that have to be instinctive, and well practised. A warship, plainly, has to add being under attack to the normal dangers. Never been to sea in anything bigger than 44-foot, but my basic sea survival training was the same as a pro. To loose the majority of a crew for reasons not directly connected with enemy action is seamanship a-la Titanic age.

(I enjoyed my basic-safety training weekend. We were all yachtsman on that particular course, but we still learned stuff like how to step off the deck of sinking ship. The instructor said, hey, you might find yourself on a sinking ferry one day.

I liked the final words too (I expect he used them every time): "I sincerely hope that all this has been a complete waste of time for all of you!" )

 

There is Enemy at the Gates. So yeah, one.

It looks like Finland and Sweden are probably going to be joining NATO sooner rather than later, possibly applying before the upcoming summit in June. Putin wanted less NATO, but his actions have had an amazing effect in changing the attitudes of the citizens of those countries. I'll give credit where it is due, he is the best NATO salesman ever, without even trying.

 

Couple of thoughts.

I was surprised about the western response, you cant say it hasn't been though. It is a big shift and I respect the people doing the decision making. Need to have some trust in our leaders. They arent doing super unreasonable decisions. Again, no one needed this.

As far the war, the conflict. People treat it for what it is. It is okay to expression how you feel about it. As far as getting into why and how. I wouldn't waste your time and energy on this one.

Getting slightly OT here.

It would be interesting to open a separate thread on defense topic. Not taking away from the importance of this conflict.
I think many people would rather focus on science, the economy, the art or sustainable life on planet earth 1.0 but it seems that defense will be a important topic for decades/centuries to come. It is hybrid - you have your soldiers, the citizens, cyber space and social influencing.

Having reviewed some of the Cold War history and reasoning, I am ok with the West leading the way. Only place where I would optimize is the financial system and banking.

I think I admire E. Musk because he cut through all of the commercial bs and got to do what he wanted because he was kind of lucky and smart. It is very unlikely hes interest were inherently in financial technology.

 

Probably the same number as Russian movies about the British/US/Canada contribution to WW2.

 

nothing odd about it - our country has been attacked, we need to defend ourselves. Ukrainians who can even consider the geopolitical angle of this, let alone discuss it, are probably not in Ukraine right now, like yours truly here. back in Ukraine it's much more simple, it's has to be - it's about survival. all the complicated questions, of which indeed will be may, will be sorted out after the enemy is dealt with.

having said that, there was indeed a fair bit of Ukrainians with pro-Russian delusions before the invasion. needless to say, all of that is gone. Mariupol, Kharkiv, Odessa - the population there understood very quickly what Russkiy Mir (Russian World Order) really is the moment rockets started hitting. not to diminish the tremendous contribution our girls and boys are making on both the civilian and military fronts, and not to brush away the help from the West, it does help matters enormously that Russia can't seem to make a move without shooting itself in the foot. the latest example is the Russian Foreign Ministry basically claiming that Hitler had Jewish blood and that it's always a Jew who makes a real anti-semite. in doing so, they managed to alienate Israel, a country which was not so eager to support Ukraine, but now is changing its standing. Russia scores again. priceless. in Russia, it appears, even fascism is half-assed.

 

Excellent post that really puts the yards of geo-economic-political theorizing in its place. Quoted you as "a guy on another forum" elsewhere, but can always edit that to something more personal, or even a link, if you would prefer.

 

thanks. I am fine to be 'a guy on another forum'. I usually go by 'anon' on 4chan