Saga 2 Ideas from Freya S?

Discussion in 'Preamps' started by Merrick, Aug 10, 2020.

  1. supertransformingdhruv

    supertransformingdhruv Almost "Made"

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    While I think there's value in the 128-step attenuator over the 64 steps, I don't think you really get a full 128 useable steps out of Freya. When I tried out Saga, I was getting one click per turn, but with Freya I'm pretty sure that I can't actually turn the knob a small enough amount that I only change the volume by one step. I also think the remote (at least with the new powered knob) moves a few steps at a time. For me, this is fine, and I don't know that I need more granularity. Your mileage may vary.
     
  2. Alcophone

    Alcophone Acquaintance

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    Multiple clicks don't necessarily mean multiple volume steps, since it's a ladder approach. It's like a binary number. Imagine you just have four steps: 00 > 01 > 10 > 11. The change from 01 to 10 flips two bits, resulting in two clicks. This analogy is probably not perfect, but you get the idea.

    However, I agree with the part about the remote. Especially if you use a universal remote like a Logitech Harmony, it's tricky to get it to behave exactly like the original. I had to work a lot with the Logitech support to get it work properly with the Ragnarok 2. With the Freya S, the learning functionality at least worked well enough to be useful, but it still doesn't work right when holding the button down, for instance. So more steps give you some buffer.
     
  3. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    Sorry you had to deal with Logitech people.
    Their Harmony (piece of cr)app is the single worst app I’ve ever used! I can’t tell you how many times I wanted to just throw it out the window and be done with it.
    Trying to help my parents to set up theirs over Skype (they’re 6000 miles away) was an exercise in patience, to put it extremely politely. Borderline masochistic, in retrospect. I have 0 patience for piece of shit softwares nowadays. Harmony leads the pack.

    I really needed to rant!
     
  4. Alcophone

    Alcophone Acquaintance

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    Oh yes, I feel you. The app itself is ridiculously dated and pretty cumbersome (could be worse), and then the actual update process is super slow because essentially your config gets baked into a firmware image that is then flashed onto the remote. And this way it's way harder to write an alternative to their app. I'd love to work on a user-friendly universal remote, though with the increasing frequency of RF remotes that becomes more challenging than ever.
     
  5. androxylo

    androxylo Acquaintance

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    Hi Jason, thanks a lot for everything you do! So, after you introduced Modius you have headphone folks totally covered with a range of balanced head phone amps. I am a speaker guy, and I run:

    Modius -> Sys pot -> Aegir -> Dynaudio.

    hopefully I will be able to eventually replace Sys with something balanced and Nexus-like, or JFET, something better than Saga+. Thanks!
     
  6. androxylo

    androxylo Acquaintance

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    I suspect the demand on high margin Freya+ is so huge that Freya S was just competing with it at lower margin. Thus Freya S is not opening any additional market, there is no business reason to have it.

    Having $400 Saga S (or mini Freya S) with 1 balanced input will probably outsell Saga+ right away, because Saga+ is not balanced and because of that has no future, really.

    The new reality is balanced Modius DAC for $200 that destroys all other DACs under $400. Pairing Modius with $900 Freya+ doesn't make any sense price-wise, pairing Modius with Saga+ doesn't make sense because it's not leveraging balanced output, and because it has low quality volume control. There is a Modius + Freya S mini market to open here.
     
  7. luckybaer

    luckybaer Friend

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    Two turntables (and a microphone), DAC (or two), two CD players.
     
  8. e.schell

    e.schell Friend

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    Haven't read all the way through this thread yet, so sorry if i'm mucking up the flow by repeating someone else, but seeing as how most people prefer the balanced output from the Schiit dacs is it a crazy idea to have 1 balanced xlr input and 1 unbalanced rca input then 1 balanced output (though i would always prefer more for my setups) and 2 unbalanced rca? Not an engineer and maybe that is too much to fit inside a saga chassis

    For my own selfish purposes having 1 balanced xlr input to connect to Gungnir Multibit (Yggdrasil or bff2 apply as well) then as many balanced xlr outputs as possible and 1 (or 2 if it will fit) rca out. All SS no tube needed, let Nexus handle the bizness! That would be my ideal small form factor preamp.
     
  9. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    I had gone back and forth with Jason about inputs and outputs for this theoretical product a while back.

    Basically if you look at the back of the Jot you can see pretty much the max of what’s possible to fit in that sized case (assuming you have a set of RCAa where the expansion card can go in this picture):

    upload_2021-1-17_19-57-12.jpeg

    The most likely scenario would be 2 RCA and 1 XLR inputs, and then 1 RCA and 1 XLR output, simply because this is likely the most versatile configuration for most people (i.e. potential customers). Most people aren’t driving more than 2 amps, and you can’t really fit more than 1 XLR in and 1XLR out. To make it more affordable and efficient for Schiit, I expect a reuse of the Jot configuration would be likely.
     
  10. tranq

    tranq Facebook Friend

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    It would be cool to see this become a reality. selectable outputs would also be nice, even as a 3 position manual toggle switch. A, B, both A & B.
     
  11. JanMc

    JanMc Rando

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    I love the idea but I would want to keep the switchable tube like the current Saga+ has. Then I would also like to see the same flexibility in a new Lyr. This would give us a Sagius and a Lyrius to fill out the Roman line of Schiit.
     
  12. AdvanTech

    AdvanTech Friend

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    I know this thread has been quiet for a long time, but I felt I had to bring it back from the dead to say that my heart aches dearly for a BALAGA. All I want is that Saga hybrid tube buffer with XLR ins and outs.
     
  13. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    Ditto... except an SS BALAGA so I can leave it on all the time...
     
  14. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    @AdvanTech - unfortunately ^^^

    I know nothing about the sales side of the equation but apparently such an idea is not too interesting. :(
     
  15. AdvanTech

    AdvanTech Friend

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    If someone was smart and handy enough, would it be theoretically possible to buy two Saga + and jerry-rig a two chassis BALAGA?
     
  16. Wilhelm E Vormer

    Wilhelm E Vormer Rando

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    A nexus SS balanced pre amp in a bifrost sized chassis wd sell well, even at $499. It would tempt many inc me to purchase the pre and matching sized dac, to sit side by side. An area where cheaper SS preamps seem to fall a little short is in the lower registers. If extra attention cd be made here..
    Another gap in the market - an affordable balanced tube buffer, using smaller cheaper variety tubes
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
  17. jmaz87

    jmaz87 Rando

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    As we enter 2022 I think this discussion becomes even more relevant. I just got my Saga S and its been a pretty Mixed Bag...

    Maybe Saga2 can avoid this confusion and / or improve on some basic usability or am I totally missing something here?

    1) Selectable Outputs as stated on website: 2 RCA pairs, selectable via front switch or remote.
    I don't understand why this is deliberately so misleading! I would have LOVED remote selectable outputs but that isn't the case. Manual only mentions that you "can" run 2 different amps and switch passive/active.

    I had planned to use Passive mode but when I plug in my HPA to output 2 my speakers drop in volume which I don't like at all and when I turn HPA off/on it pops on speakers... I thought I was gonna be able to have both on potentially and just switch via remote for convenient Headphone use at couch if GF takes a call for example.

    why are they tied together? is it normal for a second output to affect the first outputs volume? to me it does in passive mode but then I lose functionality (passive doesn't work for my use case then)

    Email from Schilt said sorry for the "error on the website" but I can find other posts online going back to OG Saga with the exact same confusion and it looks like Freya is no different. Please correct me if I'm wrong because the wording is identical to Saga S.

    2) Ground Loops... I have dealt with Ground loops in the past with my PC in office causing a nasty one via USB to an E30/L30 stack driving the same active speakers mentioned above (Adam t5v's + t10s sub) this is what caused me to dip my toe into balanced stuff and both Geshelli J2 and Bifrost 2 completely solved that issue and sounded great!

    I was hesitant to use RCA's again when I moved Monitors out to Livingroom but that same spare E30/L30 stack was all I had laying around with a remote for volume. It was dead silent sounded great! All I had to do was switch L30 output for headphones and it wasn't a biggie since I usually have to switch to low-gain for IEM's in the evening anyway.

    So I decided to save money and get the Saga S using only a Bifrost 2 as source. Instant Ground loop... It isn't horrible but to get any granularity from Saga S I have to have the monitors level up to a level where it is audible... kind of a bummer when I'm trying to upgrade my 250$ stack for 1000$ setup if you include the Magni3+ I also ordered to have an all Schiit setup. Shame on me for trying I guess

    Even at my desk monitors were dead silent: PC->usb->BF2->xlr->A90->xlr->T10s->xlr->T5v

    Livingroom is Dead silent with E30/L30 stack but not BF2/Saga S: RP4->usb->BF2->RCA->Saga S->RCA->T10s->rca->T5v

    I didn't want to make a new Thread for something this trivial but If a Saga 2 popped out this year with one XLR IN/OUT and even just one RCA IN/OUT with Nexus and (i know crazy) just maybe a way to actually select outputs like inputs.

    does anyone else have these issues? does everyone remember to turn off their HPA every single time or remember to turn volume back down on Saga after using HPA so GF doesn't blow up speakers the following morning when she turns speakers back on..

    I really feel I shoulda got the Freya S but I think I would be double pissed it to find it had no selectable outputs given its price.

    thanks for anyone who read!
    [​IMG]
     
  18. TinEaredOne

    TinEaredOne Rando

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    Why not use the Jotunheim 2 as a preamp if you want balanced? With the phono card, it has three inputs (balanced, RCA, and phono) and Nexus.
     
  19. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    All of the outputs on the Freya S are active all the time, just like the Saga. But I leave it and my dac on all the time, and switch off the various amplifiers to which it is connected when they are not in use, or just mute the Freya under certain circumstances. In any event, sounds like it will not suit your needs.

    Edit: from your sig, it appears that you already have a Freya S. Oops.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
  20. jmaz87

    jmaz87 Rando

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    indeed and I'm loving the Freya S sound. I warmed up to the idea of having all outputs on for the option to add a sub or something of that nature. Like many I use several sources for BF2 but its the only thing feeding Freya S.
    I would get a lot more use from another balanced output rather than 2 xlr input but I'm still very happy.
     

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