Sennheiser HD650 Love (Appreciation Thread)

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Sep 27, 2015.

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  1. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    Ok, so I am assuming that this is a damping mod on a 650, to tone down and clear up low end...
    Most probably also using damping on baffle as well.

    I didn't use much damping yet on these type units.

    Is this referring to the 690 mod?
    I am assuming that damping was tried to the 650.

    Ok so I will keep this in mind, as I will deal with the driver control directly, instead of adding materials.

    I have noted this issue with the HD800 where any damping reduces the air and soundstage.
    Thats Thats
    why my next technique on the HD800 does not use damping materials.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  2. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    @Maxx134 I think part of the problem is that most of what you claim to be unique seems to just be an applied mix of elements many of us have already discovered with HD580/600/650 modding over the years. I'm basing this on the pictures you shared.

    That, and your measurements are always kind of odd. I'd like to see them measured by someone else that has more measurement content here for a better look and comparison against known references.

    I'd have volunteered to test the loaner, but funds are tight with the baby. I have to be really picky.

    I don't mean any offense, but I'm skeptical of these mods. I could be wrong, but it's less risk for me to pass.
     
  3. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    First of all no offense taken and I always appreciate you and everyone's input here.
    Skepticism is a necessary prudence, but will not stop a mod which will threaten the existence of many Headphones.

    Also, my apologies as you assumed correctly about any similarities, because of those old pics.
    I stated so in the loaner.

    Yet this is different.
    This is the current pic:
    IMG_20191222_115638.jpg
    As you can see there is no resemblance of any mod here, unless one points out the front removal or a front hole which I instead removed the whole thing.

    Also,
    For the latest measurement parameters, I did change them to make it closer to what is done here, by going down further db and lower FR in the CSD.

    The next best thing to doing the loaner, is to just take the raw data REW file, and adjust parameters to your liking.
    So if you're still interested I would upload a link for the REW file.
    Edit:
    Or you can wait for the 650 measurements to do direct comparisons.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  4. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Damping/mass loading on back, change in or removal of foam behind driver, varying amounts of foam or other materials in front, whether that be holes, no holes, peculiar shapes, layers of different materials, or nothing at all...

    I'm saying the principles are the same here, as far as I can tell. Nothing unique about that in and of itself.

    I'm not suggesting you aren't using different materials than we've tried, or a different mixture, just that it seems it's another iteration of common mod methods. Again, when I say "mods," it's more about principles and not so much the particular materials.
     
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  5. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    You're just mass loading the driver using different parts than the usual mods. It's nothing revolutionary to do that, but if you found parts that work better than the usual dynamat/foams and result in better sound then great. Still skeptical that this will sound better than the typical KISS or JAR mod though.
     
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  6. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    Hell, there was a modder that replaced the magnet with a stronger one.
    TBH that just looks like mass loading with tugsten putty and plasticine.
     
  7. Lyander

    Lyander Too sensitive for SBAF

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    Not to derail the conversation into something I personally find extremely interesting but I don't suppose you'd have anything else to share about this? Never heard of someone deadass swapping in a stronger magnet, I'm curious how that affected sound. Tried Googling it just now to no avail.
     
  8. zonto

    zonto Friend

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  9. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    :drunk:
    :drunk:
    :drunk:

    All will look back on this thread and see what position you have place yourselves in.

    I will not disclose my intellectual property, but I feel because of this, you all just wrong out of pride and ignorance of what I did.
    Not all your fault.
    Again, I mentioned in loaner that my parts were custom made to order.
    Damping of any kind is a secondary thing that is like a bandaid that does not correct the issue at the source.

    Since when does pride stand in way of progress?
    My next gen mod is inevitable future unless someone buys my intellectual property and seals it with a key.
    Also it can be stolen.
    That's why I say, it is coming & inevitable.
     
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  10. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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  11. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    @Maxx134 quite frankly you sound a little unstable.

    OK: new mod, let's have some reputable people listen to and measure it and let's chill. No one cares that you did something similar earlier, even worse that you make a big deal out of it like it's better than sliced bread. Even if it's great, your attitude is a bit of a turn off...
     
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  12. Wilson

    Wilson Socially Anxious Volleyball

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    The "kneel before Zod" mod.
     
  13. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    Thanks for flipping the script and calling me unstable and saying I have an attitude when this thread had been totally resistant thats a on you.
    I have a right to be offended or angered if I get negative posts and response its only human.
    I am a humble guy in reality and SBAF is not been very friendly to me.
    So much for the call letters.
     
  14. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    Let the work speak for you (please).
     
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  15. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    A position of healthy skepticism? That's one of the foundations of our community. We aren't ashamed of the times we eat crow, though those are relatively rare situations.

    I believe you are interpreting my responses as more antagonistic than they are in nature. Perhaps that's on me, perhaps on you, or perhaps both of us.

    So, you are suggesting your modifications are not a form of mass loading/damping on the magnet side? I think you will have to forgive us if it appears to be some form of putty on the back of the magnet. Does it not? And are there not better ways to correct us than a response like the one I've quoted if so?

    Just because something is custom order does not mean it couldn't be something like mass loading. You understand this, yes?

    There's no pride or ignorance on our end. I think you should take a step back and consider where we're coming from before assuming the worst. We're skeptical, and what details we have so far are minimal...a couple pictures, some vague descriptions. I think we're right to question, and most of it is honest questioning.

    We're asking you to show us what you've got. We're not challenging you to a fight, necessarily. That you are so quickly defensive is peculiar and seems like a red flag.
     
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  16. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    "I have a petulant whiny right to be offended..."
    fk-ing grow a pair and be big boy reasonable.
    no one on SBAF is allowed to claim "my tech is different" and expect the community to bow to your glorious genius putty.

    if it's legit, let it flourish - be heard by the many and it will expand organically, perhaps in the direction you expect.
     
  17. creuzabar

    creuzabar Rando

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    Hello guys. I need a cable update for the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 mainly for the HD600. It is said that the Sennheiser HD650/HD600 stock cable have about 600pF of capacitance. So I'd really like to know if a low capacitance cable would really be an upgrade over the standard cable. Headphones such as the Sennheiser HD800 and Focal Elex come out of manufacture with low capacitance cables. When moving from the HD600 cable to that of the HD650, I immediately notice more air on stage, more bass and better dynamic, so a simple cable with low capacitance would be an upgrade even over the HD650 cable?
    But there are cables out there that have bizarre prices when compared to the price of headphones... For example, I paid for the Sennheiser HD600, HD650 approaching $150, open box mode on ebay, however cables like Virus 24 OCC V2 Silver/Copper Litz True Hybrid Headphone Cable costs £255, more than the headphone itself! I'm sorry about my ignorance, but that doesn't make sense to me. However I would really appreciate your opinions about cables like these.
    But what I would really like to know is indications of cables that have a slightly better overall sound than that of the HD650 stock and that doesn't cost as much as the amount paid for by headphones. I saw some options of occ cables on aliexpress, Periapt cables of copper Japanese and low-capacitance copper litz cables from Customcans. Surely there are other options, so what do you think? Which way to go?
    Which cable do you use on your HD650 and HD600, with your high quality amplifiers and good sources? Are you still using the stock cable or other cables?
    Thank you!
     
  18. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Short answer, don't buy ridiculous overpriced cables. Not saying the workmanship is bad but they are generally not worth their price premium.

    Easiest is to build your own with materials of choice. If that is not an option I highly recommend to contact blue jeans cables for a custom headphone cable in length of choice, in their LC-1 low capacitance cable which is fantastic. There's few cables that come close to its specs, and ordering it custom built won't even break the bank.
     
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  19. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    For a novice, it's very hard to say what said materials actually are. There are a couple general options:
    1. Litz copper (occ or OFC)
    2. Solid copper, smaller gauge recommended, multiple 26AWG would do
    3. Silver, in both solid or litz
    4. Plated, avoid unless free.
    The above come in different flavours and can be mixed, e.g. solid + stranded
    5. With dingleberries such as prion4, lazuli ultra etc.

    Then, there's the isolation, some stay away from plastic at all costs, PTFE is common, I do prefer all cotton but without a valid reason.

    Geometry is where the magic can happen. Each cable guru has their own geometry and may or not be to your liking. I prefer Norne geometry, their cables always sounded right. Just putting 4 cores next to each other may not yield the best results.
    In my experiments with the same wire braided in different configs resulted in different emphasis of the sound range.

    Finally there's thickness, the stock cable is small, a larger cable say 4x26AWG for 12 cores will give better dynamics, impact but may take away airiness, highly dependent on downstream gear.
    Capacitance is not everything, there are other parameters at play.

    Out of 10 cables, DIY and branded all of which sound different the overall most enjoyable is the norne S3-C, the others are not far behind, each can have good synergy with various gear or tubes so it's impossible to rank objectively. The now discontinued norne zoetic pops up at around 120$, best bang for buck.

    My advice, don't DIY, the end result is a lootbox, resolder HD650 connectors and get any cable if you can, a used copper Norne,Moon,DHC,Forza etc. for cheap 150$ range but always keep the stock cable. An upgrade without deviating far from the base sound of stock is WyWires Red. The fancy cables might be an immediate upgrade at first, placebo will have a role to play. From time to time, especially as you get familiar with the new cable swap the stock and note the changes, you'll be surprised.

    Otherwise if you're not sure, stick with stock, the more you think about it the worse you'll think it sounds and the sense of urgency to replace will increase.
    But hey, don't listen to me, I'm a stupid fuck paying more for tubes than your entire gear.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
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  20. RobS

    RobS treboR (Psalmanazar Groupie)

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    Question about EQ and midbass.

    I want to dial back the midbass on the HD650 just a little bit. I find it just a tad bloated on some albums I play. When I switch over to the HD600, I like the midbass isn't as present but vocals tend to be more on the shoutier shrill side. The midrange to treble doesn't seem as well controlled as the HD650. I also like the slightest darkish and a bit colored sig from the HD650.

    Would EQ do anything here to bring that subbass down a few dB or do I have to physically mod the phones? I have never used parametric EQ software before and no idea where to start. I've been a purist to let equipment be as is without any kind of tweaking.

    If I can squeeze out just the slightest bit more transient response out of the headphone, a bit more energy in the midrange, that would perfect the HD650 to me. Granted the Gungnir has vaseline smeary like transients anyway (well at least thru speakers) so if I can get just a little bit more energy to counterbalance it.

    On a sidenote my newish HD650 sounds more lively, open and without that weird blob lava like effect my old HD650 pair does. There's no longer this hazy playing music behind a thick curtain effect. The newish revision is a much needed improvement.
     

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