Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Sep 27, 2015.
My mains are HD650 and AD2000 for this reason did you find any other cans that sound nice like this?
I would love to hear a pair of the AD2000s again. I owned them about 13 years ago and powered them with either a AMB M^3 or a Woo Audio WA6-se neither of which were good matches I think. Plus I had a shitty dac at the time - a Zero DAC with discrete op amps. It sounded amazing at the time though lol.
You might be surprised the gains you'll get from a different amp. I'm not saying you should chase expensive purchases towards some imaginary endgame, but it's worth trying to go to meets and the like to check stuff out. You might be surprised, because some amps sound truly amazing with the HD650 (and many other high impedance headphones).
Was this when the rear foam was sandwiched under the big damping piece? No rear damping at all? If the former, foam got moved to an external piece, which you don't have to attach. Can help with graininess if you hear it. You can also run with a smaller or no cutout on the front side.
I have to wonder if the first Auteur I had on loan isn't totally representative of how they actually sound. Again, I think this was a pre-prod unit, but I was under the impression nothing changed from what I heard.
I feel the Auteur Blackwoods with the Eikon pads has a close resemblance to the HD650s out of most of the amps I've heard. As a matter of fact I prefer the Auteurs out of most sources. The HD650 is still king in mids and coherency but Auteurs gets very close but there's just that little bit of veil and clarity that's missing. When you pair the HD650s out of something like the Feliks Euforia, it removes the veil and becomes very clear. Other than sub bass extension, it's a toss up at that point to which is better.
The Auteurs with the Auteur pads sounds like denser and sweeter HD800. Maybe that's why it doesn't sound like a HD650?
I might have heard that early unit with Eikon pads. Can't recall if pads had been finalized yet. Maybe a last minute change or something...Heck, now I'm doubting if it was a pre-prod unit I heard or an early prod unit.
I got them on 10/2018, no idea what was under the damping piece. Since I'm not current with the JAR mods I won't say anything further as to not dissuade potential buyers based on comments no longer relevant.
OK, now it's clear to us what you meant, thanks!
Hello, here are some measurements from my "next generation" mod to compare.
It is now on loaner thread.
Its actually a "lean" HD580 that I try to make close to a hd650.
Unfortunately I had my fishtank (noise) nearby.
HD650...cheated and betrayed you, now I'm back like the prodigal son. I'm eating crow. Lots of it.
And yeah think it was Serious who said the only thing limiting the HD650 are the amps and DACs. Now I'm not saying the Mjolnir 2 is the be-all end-all headphone amplifier, but plugging in a balanced HD650 in with the Convert-2...in like a split second I knew I had to get rid of the HE-6 LOL.
Holy hell is this headphone so revealing of source components and amplifiers. Now I completely get why people spend thousands on boutique amplifiers with these lowly priced headphones. And also why a lot of people who bought the 6XX, dissatisfied and dumped them, if they dont have the gear. These are no mid-fi headphones, far from it. I can't believe the expansion of the headstage with this setup. I realize now the closed in stage was coming from cheaper solid state amps like the Magni 3 or how mechanical/broken it sounded on the Modi 3. Also the absence of compression is wonderful with the Mjolnir 2. Curious how the Ragnarok 1 or 2 sound with the HD650 now, but I'd want a tube preamp hooked up cause I love tubes.
I was shocked by how hard this headphone slams with different components, haha is this an HD650?! It can deliver the visceral impact of the HE-6, but without the fatigue and fucked up midrange. I find the bass to be just right, I don't miss the HE-6's bass at all, in fact I prefer how the HD650 extracts small details in basslines. It also sounds more correct. And guitars are explosive and roar, where with the HE-6 the same ferocious guitars sounded "transparent" and don't attack like they should. It just don't sound right. Also I had complained the HD650 made drums sound like they were being banged on milk jugs, but nope not here. Some of these lower priced DACs I had hooked up to it just don't do these headphones any favors.
I got a HD600 in recently too and man this is one neutral headphone. Sounds like a smidgen on the brighter side compared to HD650 . I really like it, eases up on the sub-bass and maybe has the bass/mids/treble transition nailed by just a hair better. I find it just a tiny bit more cohesive in the entire audio range. But the HD650 is a bit more euphonic (colored). Hard to pick which one I like more.
Yeah the acclaim around this headphone is totally justified.
@treboR Well, the Mjolnir 2 is really good at making the HD650 slam hard. That is not usual even from multi-thousand dollar amps. But you have at least seen how the 650 can change with your gear.
A lot of people don't like its low-mid emphasis, slightly rolled last octave, less than perfect bass distortion, or just want a bit more brightness.
On top of the right DAC/amp, mods suit the 600/650 well.
Were there coloured spirits involved? The HD650 can do some slam but under 60hz really suffers fast where the HE6 can go deeper and harder. Mid bass slam can be quite good even if a bit woolly when compared side by side with other cans.
Otherwise I agree and why it's the only can I've had for some time and had to go exotic with mysphere and soon hedd but as complements, not replacements.
Haha with the Valhalla 2 (and Magni 3) the HD650 is wimpy compared to Mjolnir 2 if we are talking about how hard it hits. It's a visceral engaging sound I've never heard before with these headphones. And yeah the HE-6 does better bass extension but I still get enough bass slam that is sufficient for me. I really like this amplifier, I sought it out as from impressions it seemed to be a good match with the kind of hard hitting sound I'm after. It keeps the things I liked about the HE-6 but also doing things dynamics are good at. Curious how different tubes alter the sound, got some coming in next week.
If I had to do this over again. I would think a lot more on what amplifier to pair with the HD650, instead of just buying the cans alone.
I should add a caveat that I don't listen to audiophile recordings, classical or jazz. So take what I say with a pinch of salt. I mostly listen to pop, rock, R&B, hip-hop, etc.
It's really difficult to figure out which DAC I part with. The Gungnir Multibit or the Convert-2. I go back and forth.
EDIT: Forgot to say both the HD650 and HD600 are stock. Might try mods on my beater pair, but it's an older HD650 so I might do the 650M over the 650KISS. I'm happy as is stock though.
I liked the mjolnir2 when I had it, super fun with senns or other cans. Hits like a truck.
Has anyone even noticed that my mod places the bass 10db over the trebles, while stock 650 places bass only 5db over trebles?
Not to mention that the 580 was lean bassless version compared to 650?
And also how clean my CSD is?
Its like a Giant elephant in the the room and everyone is avoiding it...
I dunno, much as I love bass I think the balance of the stock HD650 is just about ideal— the overall profile of your modded HD580 looks like a Harman thing almost (reduced mids, slightly more treble than mids, and way more bass than treble) except more focused on midbass than sub-bass which isn't ideal IMO given the limitations of the driver's design, never mind that even with measurements up against a tank the distortion figures are more or less what you'd expect of HD6-series bass.
It's not a horrible tuning, I'm actually rather curious about your TH-X00 Purpleheart mods that seem to target the same voicing, but because the midrange (and arguably the balance thereof relative to treble) of the HD650/600/580 is what makes it a highly vaunted series of headphones turning them v-shaped kinda misses the point a bit?
And speaking of your CSDs, I nearly said this in the TH-X00 thread but opted not to: any reason they still seem to look as if they're lacking resolution? Not that I think it'll make a great deal of difference since any long-lived ringing will likely still be visible, but it doesn't look too different from stock measurements I think?
Happy to own up if mistaken, but measurements from before you applied mods will always be appreciated to illustrate differences. Without them it's kinda hard to digest.
Would there be any reason not to modify the HD650? It might be the only hifi headphone that doesn't require mods and sounds good stock. Unless there is some serious untapped potential with mods.
Measurements aren't everything. If you want people to give your mod more credit do a proper loaner with a modified HD650/6XX instead of the 580. On these forums people overwhelmingly have 600/650s.
The KISS mod is totally worth it. I did it for under 10 bucks and it took 15 minutes. It's not an enormous difference but it's enough to be worth it.
The dampening mods makes the bass more solid. I didn't care for the coin/foam mod but dampening mass-loading is worth it since it doesn't take anything away from stock sound, just enhances bass performance a tiny bit.
Edit: I made my comparison before and after mass loading and it simply improved bass distortion, no timbre/decay issues or 'dry' sound. Followed the HD650M/Kiss threads and used a Damplifier Pro material from the online smallest sheet sample.
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