The Cause of Many Stupid Arguments Regarding Tonal Signature of Headphones

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. fiddler

    fiddler Acquaintance

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    I just started working in an opera orchestra pit. I'm gonna have custom plugs made soon..
     
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  2. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    That DJ suffered the same fate as society. Society and government do not care about hearing damage until the defence forces and and health services say "we need healthy people with functioning ears" while record companies and record producers pump up volumes and the masses crave more loudness to sing along to their favourite chorus like brainwashed sheep. Stupidity is a big factor and some people simply take their money, pump up the volume and shut off their conscious.

    This hobby alerted me for this hearing damage risk. I value my silence.

    End of semi-political post, no follow up.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
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  3. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Along the lines of damaged ears/hearing protection, what DACs/amps are particularly good at extracting detail at low volumes? With the HD650, I do find to get the sound I like, I have to turn up the volume, but I know it is too loud for anything other than temporary listening. When I have it low enough for long term listening, I feel like I lose nearly everything that I spend money on to hear. I still hear my music, and it still is pleasant, but I can dig down into it.
     
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  4. Lightbulb Sun

    Lightbulb Sun Friend

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    The GOV2 Infinity really suits my preference for clarity and resolution at low to medium volumes, while retaining some heft below, with the TH-X00 or Jupiter; contrast with the Chord Mojo & Hugo and the iFi micro iDSD, which all need to be toward higher volumes. Perhaps not surprisingly, I find the HD 800 (stock) also very nice for clarity and resolution at low volumes with the GOV2. (These impressions are less with, say, Death/older Cynic/Baroness and more from Shelby Lynne-type .)
     
  5. ginsbu

    ginsbu Rando

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    I first got earplugs when I started doing a 1 1/2 hour subway commute regularly. I quickly noticed some temporary hearing loss after riding and started using earplugs or IEMs. Now my subway rides are less than a half hour so the earplugs usually only come out for weddings—and even with them in I usually prefer to leave the room. Thankfully the newer subway cars are much quieter inside, but they're still just as loud outside from the outside: I particularly dislike waiting at a local station which express trains bypass at full speed and volume.

    When listening to headphones at home, I actually dislike too much isolation: I want to be able to hear my kids crying or my wife calling me, so I use open phones and try keep the volume down. With my new HD600, I've noticed that I seem to like playing them just a bit louder than my K7XX, so I have to watch myself.
     
  6. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

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    None. Play music at 80-90 db average spl. That's near the mixing volume of most recordings.
     
  7. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    Mixing volume is one thing, equal loudness etc etc, another is dynamic range.
    Good masters have 60dB or better DR for which 80+ dB loudness is a requirement.
     
  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

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    Good rock and metal music masters have at least 9-10 db of dynamic range and the peaks are cymbals and snare so treble problem headphones like Beyers and the HD 800 can actually damage your hearing as that +10db emphasized snare rim hit over the guitar volume that cuts through the mix would be a second of 95 db or so but on the DT 990....

    For classical if your amp can't do give you the gain, then you have problems. Planars sound hilarious with dynamic music. Even old Slayer records from the 80s. Orchestral stuff is ridiculous on them.
     
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  9. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    You said it. With the reservation of HEK and Abyss that I haven't heard couldn't agree more.
     
  10. oqvist

    oqvist Rando

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    Always been curious how much headphones tend to differentiate from eachother. Just don´t have the economy to buy 5 pairs and pick the best.
     
  11. Darsus

    Darsus Insatiable bowels - Member

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    This is something that drives me nuts! First, when I came into this hobby, I thought there is something wrong with my headphones and that something might defecting them (even started a topic). But the more I read, the more I see it's a "normal" thing in audio world. I had a chance to listen to LCD-3 recently and I noticed imbalance between left and right (right sounded a bit darker I think), which is crazy! It's intolerable for me to pay 2000$ and get drivers that don't sound the same! Hell, no matter of a price, I think you deserve something that sounds right! One of the reasons I abandoned my idea of getting DT250 250 or something else, and started waiting until I stumble on a good pair of HD580 or HD600.
     
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  12. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    Dear gawd... you see that worries me... I've got a party of sorts planned for me an my fiancee in Macedonia set for march... I never thought about how LOUD the DJ might play his music >.> very happy to read this post...

    though still yea, a lot of the diffances can be boiled down to deaf kids from the HF randoms, or different rigs. But honestly, I followed the MDR Z7 thread for like 3 months after it was launched. The last time I read it, my impression was that it was... almost a closed back LCD 2F without the upper mid range suck out... well now I have a modded MDR Z7 which is exactly that! An I didn't remember what my "assumption" of the MDR Z7 was until I listened to it an noticed that well... it sounds like an LCD 2F

    my point being, I've usually managed to get a half decent idea of how something sounds from a dozen or so DIFFERENT thoughts an views. usually the happy middle ground from the reviewers + the measurements get me to what the headphone actually sounds like [but seriosuly though with some mods the MDR Z7 has some really awesome bass and tactility!] A shame it's so dark though
     
  13. Klasse

    Klasse Friend

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    Maybe you should try a headphone with a cooler and brighter FR
    That said, you can always equalize your HD650 wisely if you're an EQ kind of guy
     
  14. sszorin

    sszorin Rando

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    Welcome to the club of morons. I was called a moron when I pointed out that planar magnetic headphones are unfit to be used with good quality recordings.
     
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  15. sszorin

    sszorin Rando

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    70 mm driver of Z7 can not generate treble frequencies. Its size is too big to do that. Drivers in size below about 50 mm cannot generate good bass frequencies and drivers of size above, I would say, 56 mm, cannot generate good treble. 50 to 53 mm size is an optimum. Sony made a calculated error in creating Z7 as it is. With [primary] driver being 70 mm size a secondary treble driver [tweeter] was needed as well. Z7 should had been a two driver design.
     
  16. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf MOT - Sonarworks

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  17. sszorin

    sszorin Rando

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    Yes, I see...there is a playground slide starting at 3000 Hz. The treble is sliding away... See the frequency graph. Further,
    A- if one large loudspeaker driver is equally adept at playing bass, middle frequencies and treble then why are there dedicated bass and treble drivers in speaker systems ?
    B - The talk was about headphones driver which is tuned differently and I presume, constructed differently, from speaker drivers. The headphones drivers are positioned right on ears so the perception of sound differs compared to how one hears sound generated much further away. The optimal size of one solitary driver generating sound, right on ear, is 50 to 53mm.
    C - Let's use a dialectical approach...if 70mm driver can honestly generate extended treble then 30mm driver can pump up strong and deep bass. Which headphones with 30mm drivers are bass cannons ?
     
  18. slowsound

    slowsound Acquaintance

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    A - Displacement requirements and dispersion requirements.
     
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  19. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    I am not too sure about 70mm not being able to generate good treble.
    Here is 106 mm midrange, which will probably out perform many good tweeters at their own game: http://www.accuton.com/drivers/detail.php?driver=7&matID=4&appID=2

    15'' driver will not produce good treble, ever. (There will be energy there, sure)
    Unless someone figures out how to stitch nanotubes into single sheet graphene , or something.

    Most iem-s with driver bigger than 13mm. Or even some with 5mm microdrivers.
    How can 56mm of HD800 transducer make less bass than 13mm one in in ear?
    It's about acoustic impedance, pressure field and distortion among other shit that determines how a transducer sounds in a particular circumstance.
     
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  20. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    6" Fostex drivers will reproduce treble up to the limits of most peoples' hearing. Yes, drivers bigger than 70mm can reproduce treble.

    That being said, I don't think we've hit the limits of what drivers can do in headphones yet. Speaker drivers tend to be a bit more sophisticated than cheapo headphone drivers, with shorting rings, exotic materials, stronger magnets, etc. Not even the Sennheiser HD600/650 drivers are all that sophisticated. The HD800 and especially the Focal Elear and Utopia drivers are interesting though.
     
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