The HD800 & HD800S thread

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by sorrodje, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2018
    Likes Received:
    3,502
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SouthernCA
    Slightly more concerned about the sell off of their consumer audio products. Looks like I need to get a spare 6xx or spare parts at a reasonable price while I still can - one thing I've always liked about the 580/600/650 line - high quality, readily available, relatively inexpensive, etc. parts.

    And while it's a bit early to judge given that no one has heard and and provided public feedback... I'm not hopeful. Agree that based on what we've seen so far Sennheiser missed a good opportunity here.
     
  2. ksat90

    ksat90 Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    I really meant it tongue in cheek. I'm also eagerly awaiting their arrival into people's hands first, but it's strange that they choose to publish measurements of a hotter HD 800. The HD 800 were infamous enough for being bright.

    I have a feeling it's going to get "fixed" closer to the actual delivery date, and this way you get even more pre-orders.
     
  3. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,028
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Texas
    This turd sandwich just makes me want to hold on to whatever self-tweaked little part of HD800 history I've managed to make myself able to deal with because of the rock-hard-boner-headstage-gasm I haven't been able to get from all the other headphones I've loved while quietly trying to exorcise the 800s from my life. Love it or hate it, they give you something you can't get elsewhere. They're like an abusive spouse. They're just ok until you start to try to sell them and get rid of them. They'll be back.
     
  4. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,360
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    India
    Oh shit... Obvious, but it hadn't occurred to me. I spruced up my HD800s with new pads and headband: "used" was very true! I like to think I can do that again in the future. I like to think that something like a driver failure or accident doesn't render them (or my hd600s) throw-away junk. Obviously, yes, I change/upgrade gear from time to time, but my relationship with audio equipment is that it is intended as a long-term buy/experience. I don't want Sennheiser to take that away from me.

    I wish I'd bought two sets now
     
  5. oldschool

    oldschool Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    Maybe we should chill a bit. Senn said they are looking for an investor to support them, rather than selling the business. That would come only as a last resort.

    And in any case, I doubt accessories and support for their popular lines like the HDxxx series would all of a sudden disappear.
     
  6. Scubadude

    Scubadude Almost "Made"

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Pretoria, South Africa
    Sensible advice. A sale is not always bad ... It saved an otherwise terminally ill Stax. On the other hand, it degraded Acoustic Research to MP3 playing porch lanterns.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  7. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2018
    Likes Received:
    3,502
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SouthernCA
    Should clarify - I don't think accessories will disappear, but my biggest concern is a possible decrease in quality, costs may increase, parts may not be as available, some stuff gets "streamlined" away, or whatever else.

    Of course, there is a chance that none of this happens - but if we think of acquisitions as a whole, any of the above wouldn't surprise me. If we want to use Stax, from casual browsing and shopping, it did seem like the quality of some of the HP components went down a bit and from brief listening, the "new" energizers didn't sound nearly as good but cost the same or more, have a supposedly higher failure rates with cheaper components, etc.
     
  8. Giant Ass Panda

    Giant Ass Panda New

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2016
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Anyone tested the longevity of sorrodje's SD mod? I've had mine 4+ years and wondering about if I should replace them..
     
  9. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,812
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Dijon / Burgundy / France / EU
    I wouldn't bother if I were you. Mine is 5 years old and still in mint condition. Considering the time it needs to make old foams from vintage headphone to desagregate, I think the mod, once fitted and untouched, can last a very looooong time.

    Please notice I could easily recommand a 2 years replacement standard in order to make moar money. :drunk:

    About HD8XX.... I guess I'm not alone to be perfectly fine with stock HD800 enclosure , a bit of modding and a bit of EQ. so there's no point to spend money in this new toy. By the way, if Franz/Solderdude is really involved it can only mean good things in my opinion :)
     
  10. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Arizona
  11. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    9,616
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    Home Page:
    Alright @M3NTAL you've convinced me to copy my profile post here. I'll provide 'optimistic' and also 'pessimistic' measurements of before and after mods since the headphone is so position sensitive on EARS. Pretty much repositioning to show where the treble response is the least hot (optimistic) and most hot (pessimistic). This is truly the simplest possible mod I could cook up. I think it works quite well. I didn't change the volume knob position between measurements, just kept the noise going on ARTA and popped in my foam donut.

    Before (bone stock OG HD800):

    Optimistic -
    upload_2021-2-25_15-11-42.png

    Pessimistic -
    upload_2021-2-25_15-10-55.png

    After:

    Optimistic:
    upload_2021-2-25_15-14-25.png

    Pessimistic:
    upload_2021-2-25_15-15-23.png

    The mod:
    [​IMG]

    It's a visco foam 3.5lb density donut, 75mm outer diameter 50mm inner diameter. The foam is 1/2 inch thick. Doesn't worsen soundstage as far as I can tell. Just sounds loads better. Double stick tape on the steel lip around the driver to hold it in place. When you put them on you can feel the foam slightly against the ear but it's not annoying because it's pretty plush and pleasant to the touch. I have 2.5 and 1.8 density foams at home will test next.

    Sadly this would be hard to DIY and get perfectly clean edges like you see above unless you have the right tools. I use custom made circular leather cutting dies and a hammer. If anyone wants to try this out, DM me, I might ask for a little $ to recoup materials, shipping, and the time it takes to cut the rings, but happy to do this for Friends :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  12. wadec22

    wadec22 Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2018
    Likes Received:
    424
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    USA
    I'm shocked this doesn't hurt sound stage. I believe you, just surprised. I would guess it would hurt stage and emphasize some bass frequencies.

    Does imaging hold up as well?
     
  13. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    9,616
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    Home Page:
    Haven't listened to any classical music but I notice no difference at all in terms of the rendering of space vs stock in terms of width, depth, etc. If anything, possibly a less diffusive character and a more clearly defined center. Then again the stage sounds bigger when you turn it up a bit, and I can't play more than about 70dB on stock before I want to cry. The foam piece is pretty porous, guess it just breathes enough. 2.5 or 1.8 might have similar smoothing effect but be less of a concern on that front, or cutting the height to 1/4 in instead of 1/2. If I could slope that inside edge of the donut, that'd be ideal.

    I'm honestly not too motivated to test those things out because they're harder to cut and I don't take issue with the current foam. I think the driver angling and proximity are more important for stage than having wide open cups. The cup dimensions may do more harm than good in terms of reflected sound reaching the ear and strange resonances, then again I'm a HD800 newb and mostly doing this out of curiosity and spite towards this headphone so I could be full of shit.

    Regardless, I like them now! That feels good, I'm excited to explore the headphone more. I can see this mod being stacked with other mods for an even more linear and pleasant response.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  14. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    9,616
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    Home Page:
    Think of it this way - the difference in FR in the midrange accounts for energy that was being reflected and diffused within the enclosure that's now meeting the ears more directly, hence the increase in efficiency in those areas. The foam can't possibly be adding energy that wasn't already there, and And the areas where we see a decrease in energy, I can only imagine it's due to the absorptive properties of the foam itself effectively filtering reflections off of the cup walls. The initial wavefront isn't being nerfed given there's no obstruction on the front of the driver. So we get more direct and less reflected sound, should be only a good thing right? Foam doesn't have as particular a reflection character as felt or rug liner just given its material properties and porousness. Edit - for reference the 1/2 inch cut is only 12mm high, which is only half the total depth of the enclosure on the rear side of the ear. So it's not as 'full' of foam as it probably looks in the photo.

    Your ears are only so large and only really pick up sound from the pinna, I see no sense in having sound bounce past your ears, reflect off the side of your head, bounce back into the enclosure's angled walls and eventually end up hitting your ear out of phase with the direct wavefront. Or the driver projecting sound beyond the boundaries of your ear. I'm just theorizing here, but again I feel the angling and proximity is key to soundstage, and a lack of problematic reflections is key to having a linear tone and less high peaks...
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  15. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Likes Received:
    2,540
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    nowhere and everywhere
    never had the slightest desire to put the 800(s) on my noggin. Looking at the FR from your mod, now I'm going to start searching for one used...
     
  16. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    9,616
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    Home Page:
    The heapdhone still sounds like an HD800 in terms of having Senn veil and the HD800 driver having a somewhat lean timbre regardless of how you tailor the FR. But yeah, I'd love to send out some rings and see what the more hardcore HD800 users think!
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  17. wadec22

    wadec22 Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2018
    Likes Received:
    424
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    USA
    You mean NOT having the veil right? I never found the HD800 to share that characteristic with the 6XX.

    I thought it could potentially excite bass frequencies the same way you can excite them by stuffing some speaker cabinets or say placing a sub near a corner. You maybe can't add energy but you can emphasize it by trapping, correct?

    Like you said the foam must be porous enough to not be trapping any larger waves.

    Far out of my expertise here. I'll go back to the stands and enjoy the show. Seems a neat mod.
     
  18. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    9,616
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    Home Page:
    Hey, HD800 modding is far out of my expertise too! I'm just speedballing here and have the data from the measurements and what my ears tell me. Plus the efforts of others in this thread and @Bill-P 's threads. Here's another photo looking at the rear side of the cup -

    upload_2021-2-25_17-24-34.png

    It's a little more open than it probably seemed from that first image. The deepest part of the HD800 cup is about 25mm, the foam is only 12mm so it's not 'full' of foam if that helps to imagine how much foam it is.

    The speaker stuffing analogy is a bit different - the back of an enclosed speaker plays by a different rulebook than the earside of a headphone. @tommytakis and I are starting to deep dive into sunken baffle headphone design and HD800 mods. Definitely learning as we go but hoping we can pull out some great performance and definitely will share every step of the way. I'm all about rapid iterations, wacky ideas, incremental change, slowly narrowing into things, following the path of least resistance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  19. wadec22

    wadec22 Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2018
    Likes Received:
    424
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    USA
    Very cool. You're right, that image tells the story a bit better.

    I imagine the rules are different. With bass frequencies being omnidirectional I thought it may have an effect.

    Excited to see what you guys cook up.
     
  20. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    If you do end up sending out foam, I'd be interested, but only after those with measurement rigs and better ears volunteer. I won't remove the SDR mod I have, but the SBAF approved rug liner is easy to swap in and out to compare.
     

Share This Page