The Last Jedi Thread (with Spoilers)

I thought you implied that Kershner as an auteur because you followed the sentence about wishing for the days of the auteur with the one about hiring Kershner. Perhaps I misinterpreted what you wrote. If so I apologize.

See, now you are sort of doing the same thing as I did. I did not say that the original Star Wars killed American cinema. Commercially it's as healthy as it's ever been. There's been plenty of new talent that has emerged since the 70's. The business model is completely different though, at least in the mainstream theatrical distribution system. Today's business model is based on the IP/cinematic universe (Marvel and Star Wars being the biggest ones), and this model can be directly traced back to the impact Jaws (which popularized the big budget, highly marketed blockbuster) and the original Star Wars (changed relationship between film and merchandising) trilogy had.

While I'd agree that the 90's saw a bit more original films, I'm not really sure why. One possibility is the new wave of talent that came of age, or that the 90's was a decade of economic prosperity and that the economic downturn since 2000 is responsible for what it's become today. That reasoning is problematic because the 30's is generally considered the golden age of Hollywood, which was not exactly a time of economic prosperity.

 

It shouldn't be too surprising when elements of the zeitgeist (read the article linked below) get pattern-matched with movie characters and plots.

https://www.economist.com/united-st...er-free-speech-on-campus-are-not-left-v-right

 

Disney is putting all future SW films on hold.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/report-the-star-wars-story-films-are-being-put-on-hold-1826992769

Maybe there is such a thing as oversatuation.

 

Yeah, it’s not all the movies, just the standalone films. Which f'ing sucks because I need more Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan.

 

Obviously they have a PR issue and if they push the envelope too hard, that house is going to collapse. I thought it was pretty ambitious to come out guns blazing.

Just remember fellas, whatever they do (or already did) doesn't negate or ruin your childhood.

 

I don't have a problem with the 2 or 3 movies a year that Marvel is putting out (although a few have been clunkers) and would show up for a StarWars every year if I liked them.

 

It seems that we are missing a lot of originality in movies today. Where is the next "2001: a space odyssey"? The next "a clockwork orange"? The next "Amadeus"? The next "The Matrix"? The next "Apocalypse Now"? And many more... I don't want another superhero/sci-fi action movie with no real message, or a stupid message. I want to question my existence or morality. I want to think.
I also want more rock operas. No way anything like "Tommy" or "The Wall" Could be made today...

 

Check out The Witch and Under the Skin. Also Blade Runner 2049 was exceptionally thoughtful for a big budget sequel.

And of course many here will disagree with me but I think TLJ is one of the most thematically rich and philosophical franchise films in recent memory.

 

Oh boy. I'm somewhat of an expert when it comes to failing to deliver the intended set of ideas, as you know

Also, when I say sjw, I do not mean a person who is fighting for people's rights. I'm very egalitarian and lean towards some solution like universal human income or standard. So I'm a sjw too, kindof.

I'm from Europe and here we don't use that term, so it's very likely I chose the misappropriate term (surprise, surprise)
Edit: thread progressed. Whatever their reasons, I abhor rhian johnson and kathleed kennedy.

 

That it seemed to want to appear so, anyway, is one of the biggest marks against it as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty confident that I'm not so dense as to be unable to grasp philisophicalness but how the hell that philosphicalness belongs in a spaceship and laser sword franchise at the expense of what had had people supporting that franchise for decades is beyond me.

That the movie wrapped that philosophical tone around the cheapness of token characters and pandering-to/cashing-in-on recent Hollywood female empowerment and racial inclusiveness trends in a film created more than anything else for massive financial profit turns the whole thing in to a hugely insincere joke to me. This is especially true when in the middle of all this pandering, the creators didn't even bother to create premises and plot lines and dialogue that were coherent. If you were going to pander to me, I'd hope you'd at least have the decency to do so in a film that made sense. Johnson didn't bother.

And

So

works if you're going to build on and expand what came before and what made this franchise the icon it is and has been to millions of people and for decades. Introduce new characters, new worlds, new story arcs, new robots, new vehicles, even new force powers but ground all that in the universe that we grew up with and were paying to spend time in again when we lined up at 2:30 AM on the opening Thursday night of TLJ. If you don't want to make films grounded in the Star Wars Universe, why buy the rights in the first place?

Leia in space, astral projection, light speed engine torpedoes, Ghost Yoda setting fire to the Jedi scrolls with lightning, dozens of jettisoned escape pods supposedly being unnoticeable to a nearby armada... these are things that a real fan knows don't jive with the established universe and for Kathleen Kennedy to give Rian Johnson license to come in and either be oblivious to the established universe or to simply tell us that that universe doesn't matter any more is another place where this movie is, to me, a joke.

Add to that, again, wasting the last chance we had to see Luke being a Jedi and for being so pleased with themselves for having told so many of us and our $18 ticket fares to go f**k ourselves and as far as I'm concerned, this movie was garbage and as far as Star Wars goes, Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy can blow me.

I only saw Solo, which wasn't quite as offensive but still, to me, overall a shitty movie that didn't respect the established universe (in spite of a few cool moments and sequences), because I had time to kill on an out of town trip and because the movie had already bombed by that point so that my ticket fare wasn't contributing to that mess being looked at as successful. I'll be skipping Episode 9 and the rest of these movies until Kennedy and Johnson and even Abrams are gone and they get the Russo Brothers or John Favreau or somebody who gets it to write and direct.

#MakeStarWarsGreatAgain

 

While it has it's problems, and is in general a typical superhero superficial blockbuster spectacle, I think Thanos did a fair job of introducing at least some of that. I was very impressed.

You articulate your thoughts way better than me. I basically agree 100% with this.

 

Yeah I agree with that mostly. Me personally I really couldn't care less about it as long as it doesn't feel forced, which in the case of the star wars movies it really doesn't. The real problem with TLJ was it was a movie that went in about a thousand directions. Some of which didn't make a lot of sense and it didn't really answer a ton of questions. Going in after the great reviews it got I was expecting something pretty good and when I left I was very confused and trying to figure out even if I like it or not.

 

Less is indeed more, the prequels proved the opposite already. Medichlorians my ass.

The Halo series of video games made the same mistake with their first sequel. The original’s story was lean, supported just by existing in the world. They tried to flesh out the antogonists with a straight-to-video level relgious/political codswallop narrative for the next one, and side-lined the main draw in the process. It killed all curiousity for the world you’d become invested in.

 

I'll second @Merrick suggestion of Bladerunner 2049. Excellent movie. That same director did The Arrival which is an interesting and original first contact movie.

There is good sci fi movies coming out still, just have to look for them and ignore the crap.