Got BillP's modded 580, I've been waiting for these to pop up for a while so I can grab them. These have the HE60 pads and honestly they ruin the sound quite a bit. Mids and upper bass is way too bloated, barrel sounding springs to mind. With fresh HD650 pads and coin modded front foam they're much more balanced and quite a rival for the HD650. Listening side by side on the same DIY cable on the Stellaris/Pavane I can hear the HD580 is much more balanced across the frequency than my modded 650s. Bass reaches lower and has mild to moderate better control, no mid bass emphasis to speak of, high end is more sparkly while retaining the same amount of detail but not in as relaxed of a manner, but less aggressive than the JAR650. Mids don't have quite the smoothness and presence of the HD650 and the only downside but it's a worthy trade off for this kind of neutrality. They're 2nd or 3rd(LCD4) on mids of what I've listened to but I've never heard a more balanced headphone than this one. Been listening all day and I can't take them off. The Verite sound off by comparisons with an exaggerated mid range and seriously rolled off high end. In an old IF article Tyll said these are slightly grainy but I don't hear any sort of grain, might by that I've got HD650 grills instead of the plastic ones and a better setup.What is with old senns putting to shame modern headphones?