The Old and Mighty HD580

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by ultrabike, Jun 27, 2017.

  1. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    A coworker lent me his good 'ol HD580s. He bought them new, but after quite a few years, these have gone through all sorts of pad replacements. The cans are a bit loose in terms of grip, probably due to years of use. That said, they are almost mint and very well taken care off.

    Sound

    These sound quite nice. IMO pretty balanced and with reasonable bass impact when required. Pretty clean. No obvious FR deal breakers. Decent soundstage when playing binaurals and other stuff. Quite enjoyable.

    Comfort

    These are quite loose due to use. Still, as expected, quite light and comfy.

    Presentation

    Prefer the looks of the HD558 and HD650 to their siblings. Don't dig the lattice brick wall HD580 cups that much. That said, I do like the classic overall form and head-band. Not sure what the deal is with the current TOTL Frankenband fashion.

    Price

    These appear to be as close to an HD600 as can be. Moreover, the used goods market seems to price a "pristine" pair too close to a good deal for a brand new HD600... So I would get an HD600. I guess not to bad if ever a crazy deal comes up, or if into collecting stuff.

    Overall

    Not a brain fart and pirate's booty material living on through the venerable HD600...

    ChangApproved5Star.jpg

    Measurements

    Frequency Response

    hd580_fr.jpg

    Distortion Right

    hd580_distortion_right.jpg

    Distortion Left

    hd580_distortion_left.jpg

    CSD Right

    hd580_csd_right.jpg

    CSD Left

    hd580_csd_left.jpg

    Impedance

    hd580_impedance.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  2. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Overlay with HD600s...

    hd580_hd600.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  3. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Adding some HD580 Jubilee edition stuffs:

    Impressions: Very nice. Measurements seem to show a bit more roll off in the sub-bass region than some other HD6x0, but I don't hear it bass lite at all. This is a pretty well taken care off unit BTW.

    Frequency Response

    hd580_fr.jpg

    Distortion Right

    hd580_distortion_right.jpg

    Distortion Left

    hd580_distortion_left.jpg

    CSD Right

    hd580_csd_right.jpg

    CSD Left

    hd580_csd_left.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  4. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Here are some measurements from @Bill-P modded HD580s taken at a meet:

    Frequency Response

    HD580_Bill_Mod_fr.png

    CSD Right

    HD580_Bill_Mod_csd_right.png

    CSD Left

    HD580_Bill_Mod_csd_left.png

    Comparo with stock HD580

    VS_HD580_stock.png

    The treble and upper-mid region is a little different due to change in the coupler. Previously I measured these with a leaky coupler. Now all measurements are done with a non-leaky coupler.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  5. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    @Bill-P provided his HD580 (modded) set. The headband is a little loose for my narrow head. However, he completely redid the exterior.

    This is a beautiful piece all in black. No scratches. The cups have been upgraded to HD6x0 model.

    Sound is nice and retains the essence of an HD580/6x0, but does sound a little bit more forward and lean. This is probably because the cans are not making sufficient pressure against my ears. A larger head would likely have no problem with these. One could always replace the headband, but then for some other folk they would be too tight.

    I can't fault these can for any other reason.

    Here are some measurements:

    Frequency Response

    HD580_fr.png

    Distortion Right

    HD580_dist_right.png

    Distortion Left

    HD580_dist_left.png

    CSD Right

    HD580_csd_right.png

    CSD Left

    HD580_csd_left.png

    Again, a little different coupler vs original HD580 measurements.

    Note the distortion profile on the right driver is a little atypical for these headphone make and model (less distortion in sub-bass area, but more in the upper-bass area)

    Also note measurements are a tad different from the previous time. Possible there is been some mod changes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  6. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Thanks, @ultrabike! :punk:

    And yeah, I bended those headbands quite a lot. I am one of the... cranially endowed folks.

    The reason for this tuning was basically that I wanted a HD6xx headphone that is as close to a "flat line" as possible. Something that I'd be able to put on my head and go "oh yeah, so that's what a 'flat line' would actually sound like." I seldom use it for enjoyment, though I'm having high hopes for the Bottlehead Crack (currently rolling tubes and trying to find more secret sauce to add in). This is the "reference" set, and then there's something else. Good to see measurements agree with what I've been hearing all this time.

    Also this basically confirms to me that the front-foam replacement I made is pretty effective at keeping FR the same. Will post a mod guide on it then for those who don't wanna have to keep replacing the foam thing!
     
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  7. landroni

    landroni Friend

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  8. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Probably some of the mods that apply to the HD580 may apply to the HD6x0 line to some extent.
     
  9. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    Yes, discontinued. They do show up quite a bit on ebay for reasonable (and sometimes unreasonable) prices. Usually less than used HD600s.
     
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  10. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Applicability will be universal. :) (they have the same inner structure after all)

    In fact, I think that if I can keep the treble and upper mid from going crazy in HD580, then the effect will be quite nice for HD600 and HD650, which I have always heard to have a bit more bass than HD580 (so they may balance out the thin sound you're hearing better).
     
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  11. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Looks like these distortion measurements were run at a much higher level. The noise floor is 20db lower and distortion much higher.

    Otherwise looks like a bit more 1-2kHz compared to stock HD600s and also some more treble. That would be too bright for me. That it has less midbass is likely more of a good thing, but I haven't found a material to put behind the driver that also doesn't impact liveliness.
     
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  12. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    The noise floor is lower at least in part because I did an average of 8 measurements. The other measurements are single measurements. The distortion is indeed higher and likely due to running things hotter. I will recalibrate later.

    Also note that the differences in frequency response vs. previous measurements are likely due to changes in the coupler. I remembered that back then I was using a leaky coupler for open headphones. I measure all headphones with a non-leaky coupler these days (after some full size open HiFiMan thin diaphragm measurement fiasco in SD). I can verify this by running the measurements again with my old leaky coupler.

    As far as brightness, I feel it should be OK for me, but the lack of seal and pressure due to band stretching possibly made things worse for me. I have an alien-like head: narrow and long from front to back.
     
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  13. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Didn't know those were an average of 8. But still, the inherent noise floor shouldn't be this low.
    The meaurements in the comparison are your new HD600 measurements that you took just recently, right? These were the ones I meant. Measures a bit leaner/brighter than that.
     
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  14. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    What should the noise floor be?

    Consider 10 dBSPL is the equivalent of rustling leaves noise and 90 dBSPL is equivalent of a diesel truck noise. 0 dBSPL is threshold of hearing:
    http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm

    Quiet bedroom should be like 30 dBSPL. But again, consider these are headphones and I did an average of 8 measurements.

    I do agree with you that the previous measurements do not show the same noise floor and distortion, and that is likely due to calibration differences indeed and number of averages. And indeed calibration can affect absolute noise floor level reading.

    That said, distortion profile does seem typical for these headphones make and model, except for the right driver. Distortion profile was the same on two separate measurement events.

    Yes. I based line these new HD580 measurements with my HD600 measurements and offer a comparison above. It does seem to measure a bit leaner/brighter. But I think I heard them quite a bit more leaner/brighter than that. And I attribute that to headband pressure. I had similar issues with an Alpha Dog.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  15. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Noise floor, even in less than perfectly quiet room, should be limited pretty much only by the microphone. I think most 1/4" mics are around ...
     
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  16. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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  17. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    The whole "art" in it is tuning a headphone that measures like it should rip your head off, and then ultimately, it just kind of gets to be "different" from your reference. :p (dynamic drivers can get away with this kind of response, IMO, depending on the upstream, but planars and e-stats would probably be very painful)

    But now you know my impressions are calibrated toward that kind of response: less mid bass, more 1-2KHz, less 4KHz, and more 10KHz than HD600. My personal listening preference would indeed prefer more bass (MUCH more bass). And my Andromeda basically sounds like that ^ with less 1-2KHz and more bass.

    Also, this still has the stock foam piece in the rear. I could just take the foam out and it'll be nicely sloped down, but then again, I have the other HD580 pair for that. This one is kept strictly as a "reference" whenever I need a reality check since I tend to make things too dark while modding (especially if it's a closed-back headphone). This is like the "absolute brightness line" that I'll reach. Anything brighter than it at any range is "wrong", and anything significantly darker is also "wrong" to me.

    Fun fact: now would you believe me if I told you I think HD800 is "dark"? LOL
     
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  18. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Yes. The stock HD800 can sound very bassy. I would prefer the stock HD600/650 as it sounds smoother.

    Thing is, depending on the source and amplification the HD800 can sound terrible, mediocre or simply good. Some headphones are just fickle and when you maximise their potential oh boy, they sound great. I would let someone like Serious modify my HD800 if I had one.
     
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  19. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Used HD580 for dialogue editing and music check mix on headphones, from shortly after they were introduced. Acquired HD600 when they came out and didn't hear any significant difference. The HD580 lives on with one of my sons' headphone rig. He loves them.
     
  20. svperstar

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    Checkout my pair of HD580s I bought back in 2004, my first "real" pair of headphones after my Sennheiser 595s. I liked them so much I got two pairs of 580s. These ones have seen better days. I threw the pads away and I am mailing them to a friend who said he wants to fix them.
     
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