The Two Channel Advice Thread

Oh, another thing. If you can find a few small subwoofers to spread around the room you can fight the bass bloat that way.

I like to use Geddes method that way. ;-D

 

A sub was less for deep reach and more for cleanliness. My unedumacated reasoning was that woofers that try to reach super low will produce muddier bass and it's cleaner to high pass them, leaving the deep rumble duties to a dedicated subwoofer. Am I wrong to assume that?

It's still well under what they typically go for used. Hopefully it doesn't go up much higher.

Dude, I might be lucky to get a single slim sub under the cabinet. Multiple room components is gonna get me banished to a doghouse that I'll have to build myself (and it gets awful cold up here).

Though if I think of it, KEF does have a wireless module that fits with their speakers. Now if only they had a slim sub that could fit under the couch. Who cares about room modes when your dinglers get the juice directly.

 

I found a decent eBay deal on Klipsch Heresy IIIs and was wondering if they'd scratch my itch for something a bit more lively than my current speakers, lightly upgraded Polk Monitor7s - the horn loading and large, sealed bass driver all seem rather appealing to me (especially for a small-ish bedroom system like mine). I enjoy the transient bite from my custom Grados and was wondering if this was the 2ch equivalent. Is there anything in the <$2k range that does this (sealed, large woofer, lively dynamics) ? I'm no longer a measurement fascist, but I'd be lying if I said the idiosyncratic measured performance didn't give me pause. I know the Heresys are generally understood to sound the best with tubes, but I imagine my Bryston 2B-LP wouldn't be particularly unpleasant with them. Thanks!

 

I wonder how much bass it puts out before the coffee table starts shaking everything that's on it?

Hmmm... showing up at $250 when I click the link... still 3 hrs left tho (who ends an auction at 2p on a Monday?)

 

Maybe if you build an extra long coffee table in dual opposed driver config to help cancel out the vibrations...

Most recent used one I saw was about $750, so still only a third of that so far. It's promising... but this is ebay, so who knows if there's a sniperbot watching.

 

Here a link to a guy who had the thing built by a carpenter, doesn’t look half bad, his wife was very happy with that solution and he did not mention spilled coffe:

https://www.aktives-hoeren.de/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4993

again sorry for the German language

 

They'll certainly sound more lively, but Klipsch is a very polarizing house sound. It has an energy and a tipped-up presentation from the horn-loaded compression tweeter that many just don't like, or at best find 'fun' but not suitable for "serious" listening. I have Cornwall IV and bought them to have a concert-like experience in my living room, and they do dynamics very well even at low volumes. Naturalness of tone, bass grunt (as opposed to measured extension) and imaging can leave something to be desired, however.

Do you think you'd be sensitive to the frequency response issues the Heresy's have? Some listeners are very sensitive to specific frequency ranges, so if you're not empirically bothered by the significant deviations from neutral in the data then you'll probably be fine.

Good class AB transistor gear will work very well as long as it can handle the weird impedance swings of Klipsch speakers. I personally use an Audio Note Cobra integrated and the pairing is superb.

Heresy's probably need a bit more space than a small bedroom system can give them for getting a decent image and coherence as they're a 3-way. How far away would you set them up? You might want to check out a used set of RP-600 to see if they do anything for you, and if you like what you hear you could sell them and move up to the Heresy.

 

That's been my experience.

High pass the mains as their woofers don't go that deep and what depth they have usually has more distortion than a subwoofer would have. I found my tolerance for bass distortion to be about 5%; above that and I didn't like the sound. With lots of subwoofers, it's easy to hit whatever target distortion number one may care to.

Then, the mains' amps, unloaded from bass duties, seem to have more dynamic headroom.

Both Ayre and Lyngdorf have built products with the above in mind. Ayre has a high pass one can add to their amps to achieve the above and Lyngdorf have their "subwoofers" that can handle something like 50-400Hz.

 

I have 2 of these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/226125225254
and am tempted to get a 3rd, not at that price. Would that form factor work for you?

Went for a great price far higher than I was willing to pay since I don't need another mismatched sub (see above)

 

Work for me? Yes.
Work for my partner? No. It literally needs to be able to hide under the cabinet which is barely 6" tall. Or possibly the couch, but then I'd need some wireless connectivity doohicky.

Too bad about that Paradigm Millenia Sub... one of the very few options actually slim enough to fit under.

 

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-WXHtg...JWmOzQCmQ7u03Iy4vZcUXwY8ZyvltvUkaArUCEALw_wcB

 

I probably sit about 1.5-2m away, but I can move them a bit farther since sealed should be less sensitive to distance from walls. I don't have a huge amount of experience with speakers with wonky FRs, but I've been fine with the 'flavor' of several non-neutral headphones. I tend to listen pretty quietly, so aggressive sound signatures aren't always as grating as they might otherwise be.

Thanks for the detailed response!

 

I used to have a REL that would literally go on the wall. I never did that but I think it would fit anywhere and it came with wireless. It was fine for adding a bit of thump in a décor friendly way.

Here are reviews:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/rel-acoustics-habitat1-subwoofer
https://hifiplus.com/articles/rel-habitat-1-subwoofer/

 

That should be far enough away but you may need some kind of stand to get the tweeters reasonably aligned to your ears.

In my experience dynamic presentation at low listening levels is one of the best reasons to buy a high-sensitivity speaker. One note there, Klipsch are notorious for inflating their sensitivity spec. It will still be above-average sensitivity but they assume corner placement and significant room gain in their measurements.

If you get the Heresy's and don't like them for any reason besides insufficient bass output or scale of presentation then you can cross Klipsch off your list forever, so the purchase might be worth it for education alone. At a minimum it will provide you with a big contrast to your existing Polk's, and provide a nice 'reset' if you're just looking for something new and different vs. something altogether more to your taste.

 

Thanks! I have a Klipsch dealer somewhat nearby where I can audition the Forte IV which I've heard are better in most ways - I think I could get those to fit in my room, since the Polks on stands have a pretty similar footprint anyway. Glad to hear that low-volume dynamics should be a strong point.

 

So I got a two big body pillows and stuffed them under the cabinet. A bit too long to fit both under there, so on the right side brought one up halfway next to the speaker. This is the corner side and the speaker is angled more so it kinda hides the pillow. No can do on the other side. Overall, slight improvement in the clarity of the bass. As I was crawling around aligning the pillows, I realize part of the problem is that the whole cabinet itself resonates. Not much I can do about that aside from maybe putting more crap into the drawers but I don't think that'll do much.

I think there's some funky diffraction coming off the front top corners of the cabinet too because the top ledge is a couple inches away and nearly level with the main speaker drivers. I can't pull the speakers forward ahead of the cabinet because that puts them into the wicked awful zone of the alcove that eats bass. Maybe I can try lifting the speakers a few inches? I have some monitor isolation pads but they are too small. Auralex has a few options (like this), but they are only 2 1/8" thick. Not sure if that would be enough.

 

As a PoC, the body pillows are great. Now that it's proven out, I would stuff that space with some denim/cotton insulation. As that article says, fiberglass made me itch. Stuffing the space would also help with that cabinet resonance.

If possible, maybe put the whole cabinet on some rubber cork vibration isolators? That won't help much, I guess, if the cabinets are acting as old timey phonograph horns.

To help with the diffractions off my TV cabinet, I put some fuzzy body pillow covers on them. Depth of soundstage increased 50%. Were I more Americana-centric, maybe I'd use those cow cover things :-D

 

I assume getting rid of (or changing) the cabinet is off the table?

 

Right now the cabinet is actually half empty. Probably as it fills up with more junk it'll vibrate less. Changing the cabinet right now is not an option unless we find a suitable replacement (but that replacement choice will not be made by me, so it may be just as resonant as the current one). Another possibility is to do a wall hung cabinet. Maybe an Ikea Besta like this: https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/besta-tv-unit-with-doors-white-lappviken-white-s49568048/
But that may not happen for a couple years yet. Spending money to build a deck first.

I don't think putting the cabinet on footers will do much. If anything that will exacerbate my reflection problem since the front corners are too close to the drivers. I still think I need to lift the speakers up a couple inches. The only trick is finding some kind of plinth/stand/pedestal that is aesthetically acceptable. Actually, I should shove some textbooks under there temporarily first before I look for excuses to spend money (such a stupid habit/mindset to fall into, sheesh).

 

I had something like this with a desk that resonated like crazy. I eventually solved it with some cork strapped up underneath the silly thing... But the point is maybe you could use some thick cork sheets with Blu-Tack or some such temporary measure just to see if you can isolate the resonance to a specific park of the cabinet.

jello -> wall