Timeless 7hz Ortho iem - Finally a Good Ortho iem!

Discussion in 'IEMs and Portable Gear' started by rhythmdevils, Dec 17, 2021.

  1. jaker782

    jaker782 Friend

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    I'd be up for a video or detailed description of the mod. Was thinking about picking up the Timeless again but maybe I should be looking at S12 instead.
     
  2. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    Bought a bunch of cables from XINHS for them. Got a “graphene” one, which looks cool but I’m not sure if there’s any benefits. Also got a SPC that looks a lot like the one that came with your Solaris SE.
     
  3. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Adding a couple more thoughts re: 7Hz synergies:
    • BF2 + DropTHX789 is fairly flat sounding, even playing with gain/volume; kinda boring - 7Hz is much more fun out of iPhone+RU6.
    • BF2 + Jot2 high gain is teh winnar. Bass cleans up and balances out; the touch of upper midrange shout in the 7Hz also gets balanced out with the greater resolve from BF2 compared to any of my portable stuff. To be specific, reed instruments gain clarity in the clackiness of the reed vibrating against the mouth piece, and things like hearing the player's embuchure change while taking a breath (the ever so slight keeh-hough-ck noise) becomes much more evident. I'm tempted to propose the BF2+Jot2+7Hz as a second place finisher behind BF2+THX789+Solaris OG in my desktop IEM challenge, and not by a large margin. In other words, 7Hz lacks the final bit of air and upper resolve, and doesn't "image" quite as well as Solaris, but, the coherency between frequencies and the immediacy and bass resolve between 7Hz and OG Solaris is really quite close, IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
  4. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Do you have any play on the pot at all with Jot 2 in high gain? I barely could turn it a quarter of the way up with an HD580, I can't even imagine with an IEM as efficient as the Timeless.
     
  5. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Not a bunch; a comfortable volume for me is right about 7:30-ish, but there's no channel imbalance at that point, so I'm cool with that.

    Edit: also, running both balanced: Jot2 + 7Hz and THX789 + Solaris, just in case that matters.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
  6. zottel

    zottel Acquaintance

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    To my ears, there is too much treble energy when listening with the Timeless from Jot 2, in the cymbals/hi hat/sibilant region. Not at every track, but some with lots of treble in that region are nearly unlistenable to me, like Phyllis by Lettuce or Funky Butt Strutt.

    OTOH, this is the ESS DAC module, not a BF2, which might well make a big difference here.
     
  7. limesoft

    limesoft Friend

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    My curiosity got the better of me so I had to try these out. I was a little surprised as I didn't hear an obvious 8khz peak i've seen in practically all measurements - certainly not as strong as expected. I know all ears are unique and can differ with measurements, so I did some listening frequency sweeps and for me the slight metallic tinge comes around as bit of ringing in the 12-15khz, and also a little in the 6.8-8.5.khz (but not as much as the measurements had me believe).

    But overall I can't say the 7hz a significant enough problem here for me on first listen (treble region )- probably helped due to the very clean and diffuse soft/delicate sound (almost like a room feel DSP), which IMO i like as it reminds me of the sound of my Genelecs - ethereal/diffuse and wide (but clean) mids and slightly sparkly treble which leans towards touch metallic but doesn't overstep (although this is the weakest link for me - i don't like anything metallic), also the bass is similar to the Genelec family - nicely rounded, soft, plentiful but doesn't kick hard like a mule, it's a gentlemanly bass.

    Anyhow - the 7HZ have the chops I think for the price, they're much better than the JVC-FDX1 which I found too hard hitting and forward (probably have some ringing problems too) - i don't think the 7hz have any time domain issue as they don't fatigue me even with their slight treble zing which comes and goes depending on the track - but I do at times like a little -2db eq up top.

    They sounded best out of my RME ADI 2 DAC FS (sabre) 3.5mm out - no surprise there as it's IEM output is stellar (much better than any of it's other outputs) - it's very organic, smooth and super defined - the 7hz laps this up with pleasure. Second best I'd say was the Mojo 2 as the mid detail focus came through very vividly, and the punchy dynamic nature of the Mojo gave more definition to the slightly diffuse nature of the Timeless.
    Surprisingly I don't think I enjoyed it so much out of my Hiby RS6 R2R dap, I found the R2Rness of it was a little too direct and forward with this IEM in the mids - something just didn't quite click not sure exactly why. I will give it more time. In general I was able to narrow down differences more easily between my sources with this IEM, it's like it puts the music under a loupe but in a delicate soft manner allowing for contemplation and analysis as opposed to an all out detail assault - that's a good sign.

    I've been reading some burn in changes have happened here - I'm hoping it won't get brighter as time goes by, I don't miss any more brightness that's for sure.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022 at 10:36 AM
  8. limesoft

    limesoft Friend

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    It doesn't need a lot of eq to get it to 99% and decrease the slight metallic tinge - this is the Oratory eq for it (not auto eq which I find rubbish). It sound great like this with Qudelix 5k, only the bass might now need a little toning down

    Screenshot_20220807-155855_Qudelix.jpg
     
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  9. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I honestly wonder if you would be hearing any of those things if you hadn’t spent 6 months staring at measurements and all your time with the iems running test tone sweeps.
     
  10. Baten

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    I honestly don't like the 7Hz stock tuning all that much but maybe I'm an oddity, or didn't find the right eartips, or...
    It's subjective all the way down! Different people different tastes. I should try other planar IEMs at some point though.
     
  11. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    That's fine, no accounting for preferences and different ears, etc. But @limesoft has spent soooo long measurbating I just don't think there's any room for his own hearing anymore.
     
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  12. limesoft

    limesoft Friend

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    I don't deny that I am a chronic measurebator, but I also listen a lot and when something sounds good I don't go and try deny it by posting measurements. I use the tools at my disposal to increase my listening pleasure, things like Genelec GLM DSP, room treatment and eq can bring me closer to what I perceive as studio neutral/natural (hd650 being one of my baselines or GLM corrected Genelecs)

    The 7hz does not have perfect tonality - my hd650, Softears RSV and Sony IERM7 I perceive as better tuned. However they indeed come close enough, offer some of the planar benefits (speed,clarity,ethereal), and react extremely well to eq more so than my BA iems, with a little eq (based on both listening and measurebating) an even better tonal balance can be reached - I just wanted to share my experience incase someone might like to tinker.. I'm not disrespecting the 7hz in any way, the achievement for the money is indeed excellent
     
  13. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I don’t care if you disrespect the 7hz. Go ahead and hate them I don’t care. I just don’t agree with your assessment or how you’re going about it.

    And as a counter perspective I think the Sony M7 has nice treble tonality and I agree the FR is well tuned but the tonality outside the treble to midrange sounds god awful they’ve got the worst bass of any iem I’ve ever heard. It sounds like rubber. I couldn’t get past it.
     
  14. limesoft

    limesoft Friend

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    IERM7 do have a slightly rubbery bass which is more prevalent with weaker amplification - they need a lot of current to get them to come alive.

    Anyway I like the 7hz more so than I thought I would - and was happy to admit this in my post.

    I think i lost the plot - what are we disputing/disagreeing with here? That the 7hz has perfect tonality or that eq shouldn’t be used? Or that measurebating should be illegal? Surely our opinions don’t have to align on how we go about things.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022 at 8:19 AM
  15. limesoft

    limesoft Friend

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    For me it's just on the boundary of overstepping, but with a little eq it can reigned in to very good indeed territory - which I can't say for many other iems (looking at you JVC FDX1) - which is a very good sign of good quality drivers and enclosure engineering
     
  16. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I powered the M7 with a Yggdrasil, and a THX 789 with a Sigma 11 LPS. Power was not the issue, that's the best BA iem rig you can possibly buy. short of a better DAC. Likely better than whatever you used.

    once again, I will never say that someone's subjective impressions are wrong. What I am saying is that I am not sure whether you would hear any of those "issues" with the 7hz if you just picked them up and listened to them open mindedly. And the reason I'm posting this is because I think your measurbating, and test tone sweeps to evaluate headphones is unhealthy and ignorant and I don't want to see it spreading or influencing other people. What matters is how something sounds. Not how it measures etc.

    You spend 6 months anxiously staring at measurements that you think mean there are peaks, then you finally hear the iem's and happen to hear peaks. I'm not sure that is a coincidence.

    go ahead and hate on them, dislike them, sell them, whatever. I'm just saying that I disagree with your process for the record so that others see that not everyone agrees with this process because I think it is unhealthy and leads to misconceptions and ignorance.
     
  17. limesoft

    limesoft Friend

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    Perhaps I didn't clarify myself well - if anything I wanted to say that I was surprised the measurements didn't correlate to what I heard more obviously - I thought it was going to be harsher and brighter sound but it was a lot more coherent - so the measurements didn't influence how I heard things when I listened to them side by side with my Andromeda, IERM7, Softears etc. However there still is still room for improvement and this is based purely on my listening experience. It just happens that there is some frequency response relationship in terms of how I hear it, even if not exact science.

    And yes I am anxious when I see frequency response measurements - I've been burned too many times when I've ignored them
     

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