Vintage DACs

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Luckbad, Apr 26, 2016.

  1. tommytakis

    tommytakis MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Thank you so much for the info, I’ll definitely be on the look out for the ones you listed above. Yeah, I don’t like the idea of spending couple hundreds on a pair of tubes, when that money could be spent on other gear or like you said, treat the fam out for a nice meal.

    I like the sound so much I didn’t even bother opening up the insides to see which tube it has LOL I haven’t heard this type of synergy since I had the Yggdrasil A1 + ZDS + HD650, and at a lower price! Vintage DACs are awesome
     
  2. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    So I am the one who purchased the Theta DS Pro Basic II.

    My question for some of you older guys, what is that glass optical input? What is is actually called? What are even the connectors called? And what actually used this interface?

    [​IMG]

    It looks like I can just take that grey wire and desolder it from that AT&T board replace the optical connector and solder it to an RCA connector and have a 3rd coax connection.

    Just wondering what is up about that particular type of optical.
     
  3. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Friend

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    ST optical, but I am curious if that 3rd coaxial cable swap can be a thing! Very few transports use the ST optical.
     
  4. Enigmatic

    Enigmatic Friend

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    AT&T - Or sometimes called ST Optical. Insanely smart people doing crazy things in the 90s (unlike cookie cutter stuff these days). I think it sounds great though, and most times prefer it over AES.

    The interface is rather rare as Sneis rightfully pointed - Just off the top of my head a few transports from Theta, PS Audio Lambda, California Audio Labs, Wadia would have that as an output, also all vintages so would likely not last too long. Alternatively one could look for a Bel Canto interface (USB LightLink or RefLink for example) or an Audio Alchemy DTI (the ST Optical interface is an add on).

    The cables are actually quite cheap and is still used in networking these days (the duplex ones mostly)........ Caveat emptor on the expensive ones.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/5m-ST-ST-S...995534?hash=item4d72f2c8ce:g:xAMAAOSwBF1a7Oca
     
  5. A Child of the Jago

    A Child of the Jago Facebook Friend

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    There is a balanced EAD DSP-7000 Mk 3 available to me - I'm kind of looking for a meatier, warmer, analogue source - appreciate a DAC isn't going to make a huge difference to the chain, but can anyone chime in where this DAC sits on the warm / neutral / cold spectrum? This DAC certainly has its fans, not least Zach at ZMF who has one in his main chain.

    All intel appreciated.
     
  6. je2a3

    je2a3 Almost "Made"

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    [​IMG]
    After going through a plethora of CD players, a couple of multi-bit DACs and DIY mods, this late 80s Arcam Delta DAC made me realize that even if the TDA1541 isn't the last word in detail and resolution, to my ears it converts red book standard digital bits closest to what I hear in a concert hall.

    [​IMG]
    It's also built to high standards. Separate power supplies for the digital and analog sections and discrete circuitry in the analog output section when most units until now rely on IC op-amps.

    [​IMG]
    Initially I felt the Arcam was sonically neck to neck with the Adcom GDA600. Each with their own virtues and faults. But after bypassing the SA7220P chip in the Arcam, my ears were convinced that this ancient DAC was the winner.
     
  7. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    I owned it many years ago. Probably one of the most expensive dacs I bought ever, $2.7k if I recall. It was good for many years. I cannot remember what I went to from it. It is on the warm side especially compared to many of todays dacs. Not sure if it meaty as compared to an early Bifrost Multibit. But it also had a bit of sand in the lower treble. Aside from that, at the time, a very good dac. If I were allocating money towards a dac like that one, I might spend $300 or more for it if you like the sound. Definitely better than other ladder dacs like the ack dac and others at lower prices.

    I think the DS Lavry DA-10 someone listed for $350 is on par maybe a bit better, I owned that one too. And if I had to rack my brain as to ultimate satisfaction I think I would go for a Gungnir over the EAD if you want a non DS, but that is based on really hazy EAD memory.
     
  8. skem

    skem Friend

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    Ahh yes, but what if you also rendered the Adcom NOS and bypassed the OpAmps? Double PCM-63P’s might be quite magical.

    I wonder why there are physical cutouts around the TDA1541A chip.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  9. je2a3

    je2a3 Almost "Made"

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    Tapping the analog outs from the PCM-63Ps isn't within my abilities...I'm too lazy to study it. ;)

    Mainly, I didn't want to do anything irreversible on the GDA600 board. Besides, it would've been too difficult to mount a tube output stage inside that chassis which is my preferred route.

    The TDA1541 is socket mounted in the Arcam.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  10. lehmanhill

    lehmanhill Almost "Made"

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    It's worth opening it up and seeing what tubes are there. If its like my SFD-1, the tube makes a huge difference. Mine was shipping with a pair of National (Panasonic) 7DJ8 tubes and it sounded good to me. But at some point, I looked in the big shipping box and found some old Russian tubes, 6H23N. Out of curiosity I tried them and wow. The midrange was sooo clear and I hadn't realized how much bass I had been missing.

    Since then I have been rolling a few tubes including a Mazda (French made Amperex) and Siemens. All very nice, but the 6H23N Russians have had great synergy with the SFD-1.

    Since the old tubes aren't being made anymore and tubes will wear out, I started looking for a spare pair. It turns out the Volkshod (rocket) 6H23N tubes I have are expensive and nearly unavailable, but I found 6H23N-EB (military low noise, long life) Reflektor at PCX as a matched pair for a reasonable price. I think I still prefer the Volkshod over the Reflektor very slightly, but the Reflektor are very close. Just a thought for when you get around to tube rolling.

    https://www.partsconnexion.com/NOS-64369.html

    Jac
     
  11. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    Do you guys know about Audio Research DAC2? Seems to be based on Ultra Analog DAC chip and has a discrete solid-state analog stage.

    https://arcdb.ws/model/DAC2
     
  12. Davids

    Davids New

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    Child of the Jago & I have been exchanging messages about the EAD DSP-7000, and he suggested I share my thoughts here.

    I just completed a comparison of the Bifrost 2 to my DSP-7000. The short version is: I sent the Bifrost back to Schiit. It was very, very good. But not better than the DSP-7000.

    Now, it is very possible that in a different system I would have preferred the Bifrost. Both the Bifrost and the DSP-7000 have excellent separation, dynamics and detail. In my system, though, the DSP-7000 beat the Bifrost on tonality. I thought the DSP 7000 had more body, and richer timbre, than the Bifrost. The Bifrost was slightly boomy in the mid-bass, and emphasized the mid-treble in a way that was really impressive for the first ten minutes and then got fatiguing. When I switched back to the DSP-7000 I could relax and listen again.

    But I'll emphasize – this evaluation was in my venerable system. It's possible that a speaker with a different tonal balance would favor the Bifrost. And my listening room, which is under the eaves and therefore has a lot of reflective surfaces, could be biasing me towards a DAC that's darker.

    I suppose I'm saying the differences were small. But significant. It reminds me of bringing home the Vandersteen 2c speakers many years ago. I'd loved them in the shop, but they were flabby and confused in my home.

    I might give the Yggdrasil a go in the near future. In the meantime I’m grateful that Schiit has a generous refund policy, and impressed at how much $700 buys today.
     
  13. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Lavry DA 10 counts as vintage now. Goes for about 500 bucks or so sometimes. Buy it guys. DA 11 has USB and is still made and much more expensive.

    If you like warmth, purple knob Apogee stuff if it still works can be had dirt cheap.
     
  14. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Big if, and even if so they might have limited life left. I see ads for them that are always "static on one channel" or "cuts out intermittently"... but hey, if it's cheap enough...
     
  15. A Child of the Jago

    A Child of the Jago Facebook Friend

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    Need any information available on this unit - it is called a Bremen License no 1 - it's a little bit special because it's made by the Swedish gentleman that made the Forsell Air Reference DAC, Peter Steindel, and the Bremen brand is Peter's own venture into the DAC market. Not only that but this particular License no 1 is Peter's very own DAC that Peter pushed to its extremities trying to 'bring Stockholm Concert Hall to his living room' in the seller's words.

    So it's a one-of-a-kind unicorn with tweaks over-and-above the Forsell and the default Bremen License no 1.

    Has anyone heard the Bremen (particularly) or the Forsell - can anyone comment on either of their qualities or shortcomings?

    The Bremen was good enough for Donald North to distribute them once upon a time in the US.

    Bremen front.jpg Bremen inside.jpg

    All intel very much appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
  16. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    @Donald North will be able to comment about the Bremen.

    This is what Donald told me when I asked him about the difference yeaslrs ago: "Yes, they are very similar and use the same PCB. The difference is in the final adjustment and tuning of the units. The Bremen also has a better quality toroidal power transformer and of course the beautiful copper chassis."
     
  17. Scubadude

    Scubadude Almost "Made"

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    Guess a 15-year-old Bel Canto DAC 3 qualifies as vintage. I'm not really in the market but a neat black-faced DAC 3 with Underwood Level 2 mods and USB Link 24/96 showed up for a resealable price ... any thoughts on how it compares to better known DACs from the same era or more modern competitors? If anyone has heard this vs Wadia 121 any comments would be hugely appreciated.
     
  18. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    Guys, I just find enough bravery to open up the SFD-2 DAC that I recently acquired to identify the tubes it has... I think these are Siemens E88CC that @Enigmatic mention earlier?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Friend

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    Siemens looks like but they can be 6dj8 or 6922 or 7308... and damn very dusty!
     
  20. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    Thanks @Mr.Sneis ! I think the text E88CC is visible barely in the second picture. Forgive the dust, I plan to clean it. :oops:

    Another interesting thing I find is it seems that this is a late production SFD-2 MK1. I wanted to send it to Part Connexion for general check up but the shipping cost is insane.

    [​IMG]
     

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