Yggdrasil MIB was: Jason+Marv Pyrate Edition 11001B

"Deniliated" - as in "not nihilated?" ha ha - I couldn't resist - that's not a word but if you were a nihilist, where there's no meaning or purpose, then maybe not a nihilist is a double negative and so you do find meaning and purpose in a great DAC?

Anyway, I think you meant "delineated" as in having clear edges or boundaries. With the new Yggdrasil+ chassis I recently upgraded, I found USB/Unison to be better than AES, quite surprisingly. Stoddard has posted that Moffat now considers USB > AES w/ Yggdrasil so I suppose this was my ears confirming this although I did all my primary listening via AES first. I only put in USB because I changed my streamer and then discovered, ("well I'll be damned"), USB is better to my ears.

So I've been looking for a decent USB cable that doesn't break the bank, and I am excited to report that the Furutech GT2 NCF USB-B cable is as far as I can tell, a "giant killer" of a cable. I got mine from The Cable Company for about $180 and in my comparison, it handily beats all three of these in frequency extension, clarity, detail, and PRAT: AQ Diamond USB, Lush^2 in standard config, and a Oyaide Class S USB cable. A possible contender is the new Shunyata Theta USB because like Furutech's NCF, I do hear benefits to their products, but due to other priorities I am not going to test that one anytime soon.

And since I opened the can of cable worms, FWIW, I do hear the "sound" characteristics of the power cord coming through DACs in a big way, and Yggdrasil definitely benefits from a good cable.

("Shields up, Mr. Sulu!")

 

It took almost two weeks for the MIB to open up and the bass to fully develop.
best,
Josh

 

In just a few hours it's improved a ton already, to no surprise. Really liking what I'm hearing so far.

 

Yggdrasil MIB SE
vs
XLR -> Cinemag -> SE

Preamble:

I have a unique setup that allows me to flip a switch right now and go from the SE outs of the Yggdrasil MIB to the XLR outs into Cinemag CMLI-600/600C (the better, more demanding, larger version) transformers into all of my SE amps. I've been fiddling with it for at least a couple months and I guess I've made up my mind. But it's been hard to figure out for some reason and all my energy for listening like this has been going to finalizing my rhythmdevils audio headphones. I still have yet to compare the MIB to the A2, I basically just hooked up the MIB when I got it, liked how it sounded, and left it hooked up. I don't know, I may actually prefer the A2, I haven't compared them or gone back to the A2 since. But I can at least say the MIB sounds realliy good. I'm suspicious the A2 may be more resolving though... and I also have a modded PS Audio DirectStream mkii here that I bought because I'm an idiot but haven't even hooked it up yet because I don't have time for DAC comparisons right now. At some point I'll try to compare the 3... anyhow

Important Note:

I can do this comparison because I have a wonderful, balls to the wall best you can possibly make, as transparent as possible RCA switcher with 2 inputs and 4 outputs. OCC copper internal point to point wiring, Elma switchers fully grounded.

Here's a couple pictures for fun and so you know I’m not fuckin around





Chain:
Yggdrasil MIB -> native SE RCA outs -> Switcher input 1 -> SE amps
Yggdrasil MIB -> native XLR outs -> Cinemag CMLI-600/600C transformer -> Switcher input 2 -> SE amps

Amps:
DNA Stratus v3
Custom Radu Tarta 4P1L tube amp
Cavalli Liquid Crimson
Pietus Maximus
Drop TA-84
(the latter 2 for my RD-m12 iems)

Liquid Gold X (straight out of the XLR outs of the MIB)

Headphones:
RD-4 (my modded LCD-4)
RD-5000 (my new modded Yamaha YH-5000SE)
RD-800 (my new modded HD-800)
RD-m12 (my modded Letshouer S12 ortho iems)

Thoughts:

TLDR:
I think the SE outs sound better.

In a nutshell:
The SE outs are more micro and the XLR -> Cinemag 600 out is more macro. The SE out is more resolving and nuanced but flatter and smaller sounding and the XLR -> Cinemag 600 out is bigger sounding with more dynamic contrast but smooths over fine detail and micro dynamics.

More detailed thoughts about the nature of the universe:
This comparison is a bit hard to do because the volume goes up when I switch to the XLR -> Cinemag 600 out from the SE out. So even though I just have to flip a switch, there's still a volume change needed and an initial volume crack pipe hit. But I am confident in my hearing enough to feel that I can hear past that. At last after some time.

The XLR -> Cinemag 600 out sounds like everything has been stretched out in a way. Dynamic swings are bigger, as if there is literally more distance between dynamic swings. I'm not talking about soundstage size. I'm really only talking about dynamics. Like there is more space in swings between small and large notes. However, the soundstage is also bigger. The whole sound appears bigger. And literally stretched out. But in the process smeared.

The XLR -> Cinemag 600 looses resolution and micro dynamics and plankton in this stretching out of the dynamics and soundstage.

So the SE out is more resolving, refined and, well, there just sounds like there's more there. More texture and nuance.

I wish there was a way to get both the bigger dynamic of the XLR -> Cinemag 600 out and the micro finnesee of the SE out, but every time I have to choose, I always go back to the SE outs. Despite it being a bit flat and less dynamic in comparison. I'm more drawn to that inner detail and finesse with things like intricate cymbal work or the texture of brass instruments or the sound of electricity pulsing through a guitar. And unless I'm comparing the two, I don't miss dynamics or soundstage with the SE outs.

I wish I could write more about the differences, but those are all the words I can come up with.

So...

I recommend using the SE outs and not trying to use transformers, especially since most people use the lesser CMLI-15/15B transformers that aren't going to sound as good as what I used in this test. There will be even more fine detail and refinement that is lost.

Interestingly, what people say about the sound transformers have is always that they color the sound with a wet/warm coloration. And I do not hear this. I have never read what I am describing here.

Also interesting is that there is no way of knowing what the XLR outs vs SE outs actually sound like because you either have to use different amps, in which case you're hearing the different amps much more than the different output on the DAC (or at least can't make a comparison because the amps are different) (and keep in mind that amps that have both SE and XLR inputs use transformers to convert one or the other input that are of lesser quality than the Cinemag CMLI-600/600C that I used in this test), or you have to put the XLR outs through transformers into one SE amp, and then you don't know what is the transformer and what is the output on the DAC. I just find it interesting that there are these 2 outputs and no way of really comparing them except in real world use with a transformer.

I currently don't have any very good balanced amps to have been using the MIB balanced, All my amps right now are SE except my Liquid Gold X, but I only use that to tune my Audeze's and as a sort of reference gut check for orthos in general to make sure I'm not tuning for a specific amp's sound. I did briefly have the WA33 hooked up, but I am not a fan of that amp with the headphones I have. I don't have a Susvara or 1266.

I'd love to hear the Mjolner 3 out of the MIB, but I only heard the broken loaner.

 

Great review on the differences. Also have been comparing SE vs XLR. I use an iCon pro4 autoformer pre which has xlr and se ins and outs. I found the same as you with the xlr bigger with a little mor slam and the se more relaxed with at least equal micro detail( im not sure if its better). I have been using the se after a month of going back and forth as I prefer the more relaxed, detailed sound. loving the dac. This has all been with speakers
best,
Josh

 

This is really great work - I was thinking of doing something similar. Can you advise on what you hear / preference vs the Directstream?

 

I actually haven't hooked up the Directtstream yet, I've been comparing Yggdrasil A2/OG with Cinemag 600's vs MIB SE out. I'm going to hookup the Directstream next though.

 

@rhythmdevils If you have those xlr to rca cables (with xlr - lifted), can you do that vs SE?

 

I don't have those cables, I was always told it wasn't the best solution. Nice to see you!

 

On the few dacs I've tried such cable, its always sounded better then transformer thing (Cinemags/lundhal)
Transformers take away some of the microdynamics and richness

 

To the point of synergy, a few days ago I swapped my MIB cards back for the LIM cards. Earlier I thought I had settled on the MIB but listening through my AMB ß22 and Beyer T5.2 I'm not so sure anymore. Foregoing the tubes of my Eufonika H5, the LIM adds some addictive musicality.

 

Good morning, I am interested in a Yggdrasil MIB (more is better)...do you know if it can be upgraded again in the next months? Maybe with some new technology used in the Gungnir 2? Or do you think I can buy it now? Thanks

 

We don’t know when the next generation of Yggdrasil analog cards will be released. Coming months, not likely. Later next year, possibly.

I see you’re from Italy, if you’re interested in getting my MIB cards shipped from The Netherlands then send me a PM. Having now owned the A2, LIM and MIB, I think I’m ready to part with them and stick with the LIM.

 

Thank you but I don't have the rest of the DAC...

 

Asking here if anybody would know:

I have an Yggdrasil A2 with Gen5 USB - If I wanted to buy @roderickvd's MIB board set, which was originally bought for Yggdrasil+, would I need to order a different ROM chip from Schiit to get the boards working?

 

Yes you will need a different chip from Schiit for the OG chassis.

 

Yeah. If you have a + chassis, it’s plug and play for any of the cards. If you have the original chassis, you need to swap out the EEPROM.

 

I've got one of the "Universal ROM" chips with the board. It works on the Yggdrasil+ but does it also work on the original?

 

The newer chip was designed for use in the new chassis.

Correction: best to email Schiit if the new eeprom can be used in the old chassis. I just recall that they updated the firmware around the time of the chassis redesign. The new one was for remote/NOS and other capabilities.

 

I have the new ROM in the old chassis for LIM