Dekoni HD6XX ear pads

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by Bill-P, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. pelagius

    pelagius Acquaintance

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    Dekoni has posted FR plots for the pads with the HD600. I'm intrigued that the Elite Velour measures similarly to the Fenestrated Sheepskin. It seems going for the velour may be a more comfortable way to darken the HD600 a bit, in a similar manner.

    @Vtory, do you find your ears get much warmer with the Fenestrated Sheepskin than they do with stock pads?
     
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  2. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Banned per own request

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    Elite velour is the only one that doesn't bump up the mids and lose the general curve, and it literally looks like they took an EQ and pulled the highs down with a high shelf filter. Very smooth.

    It looks like a great way to reduce brightness in 600's.
     
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  3. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    Not really. My ear feel rather cooler than stock velour pads.
     
  4. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    upload_2018-10-12_15-58-10.png

    this compensation is outdated and potentially misleading. See this instead: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...dekoni-hd6xx-ear-pads.5718/page-2#post-240866

    It's been five months since I posted my impressions about dekoni pads. Today I got a chance to measure them. The result largely reiterates my previous post earlier in this thread: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/dekoni-hd6xx-ear-pads.5718/#post-205348

    Measurement configurations
    Notes
    • Dekoni pads significantly reduce trebles from 1k. Particularly reduction around 9-10k is possibly the reason of dark tonality.
    • Hd600 with stock pads got a nearly perfect seal with EARS, which I could not get with my real face and skull.. This might exaggerate bass response of stock pads. To my ears, bass was leaner but deeper by a healthy margin with dekoni pads.
    • Treble reduction was relatively mild around 7-8k (by 1~1.2db). Imo this is correlated with my perception of more fun and exciting sounding of dekoni pads.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  5. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    I was first on the loaner tour for the set of four Dekoni HD6xx pads and wanted to share my listening notes. My equipment chain is in my profile, but for convenience: modified Oppo --> Tidal --> Yggdrasil Analog 2 --> Ragnarok --> HD600 (2016 purchase) with Mogami 2534 cable terminated with Neutrik XLR. Note: I recently received my Analog-2-upgraded unit back, so over the course of my listening impressions below, my unit was in its second week or so of burn-in.

    All the Dekoni pads were super comfortable, so the below focuses exclusively on my thoughts re: sound, in the order I listened to the pads over a few days. Most of the my listening was on Weezer's Blue Album (original 1994 mastering) and The Beatles - Abbey Road 2009 remaster.

    FENESTRATED SHEEPSKIN

    Noticeable increase in bass and reduction in upper treble. Sort of removed HD600 “magic” for me. Loss of air. The sound with these pads was also weirdly irritating for some reason. Just fatiguing and didn’t want to keep listening. I had listened for hours to the same and more albums the prior weekend on the stock pads. I didn't keep the Fenestrated Sheepskin pads on very long.

    ELITE VELOUR

    Sort of like “going home” to stock pads. Immediately sounded more right to me, likely because of less treble roll off. Treble is the main reason I got rid of HD650 and 650M. Always felt less realistic to me than HD600. Tradeoff is the somewhat hot midrange, but I’d rather have that and the better treble.

    Wanted to keep listening, but the sound still sounded a little weird to me. Think Sennheiser really got the tone and tuning right with the stock pads.

    Reminds me of how I remember HD650 sounding as far as midbass goes. But treble still sounds muffled (so even more HD650-like). Voices on Weezer's Blue Album seemed smoother, but cymbals were quieter.

    ELITE SHEEPSKIN

    Dekoni's frequency response graphs showed less high frequency loss than the Fenestrated Sheepskin. Liked these way more than the Fenestrated because they were less rolled off.

    Seemed to muddy up the midbass though. Noticed less detail on bass guitar riffs on Weezer. With these pads the HD600 sounded more like how I remembered them sounding on the Torpedo3 HiZ setting. I attribute the sound difference to the headphones' interaction with amp output impedance (Torpedo3 HiZ = ~20ohms vs. Ragnarok 0.03 ohm).

    Some of that weird sharpness again. Maybe it’s leather reflections vs. velour absorption? More weight on notes definitely.

    Less definition in the highs than I remember from stock. On a couple Beatles songs, cymbals sounded a little more artificial and/or screechy. Very easy to follow the different instrumental lines though. Acoustic guitars were also a little screechy on hand movements against frets. Don’t remember wincing when using the stock pads...

    ELITE HYBRID

    Listened to the same songs immediately after switching from the Elite Sheepskin. Less perceived midbass/muddiness and less sharp/weird treble. Basically sounded like the stock pads up top. Cymbal strikes sounded more natural. Made the Elite Sheepskin sound even more peaky in treble.

    On a couple songs, voices and guitar solo were less screechy than they were on the Sheepskin pads. Welcome change. Cymbals sounded more natural on the same Beatles songs.

    BACK TO STOCK PADS

    Listened to a few Abbey Road songs on the Hybrid pads, switched back to stock and started the album over. Easier to hear details with the stock pads. Is this a function of the Dekoni pads being a bit thicker or newer, thus placing the drivers further from my ears? My HD600 pads aren’t super worn though. I kept the full foam oval over the driver when using all pads.

    Also seemed a little easier to follow the placement of instrument lines. The bass in Come Together for instance was easier to "place" vs. just hearing it being played in the mix.

    Going back to Weezer - Blue Album with the stock pads, I did miss the perceived reduction of the HD600's annoying upper midrange bump and that little bit of midbass kick that some of the Dekoni pads added. I've missed that midbass kick since moving from my prior tube amps (Valhalla 2 and Torpedo3) to the Ragnarok. I've also been more annoyed by the HD600 upper midrange peak than I was on the Torpedo3. I think the Massdrop HD6XX would be a better match for the Ragnarok and may pick one up soon.

    CONCLUSION

    The stock Sennheiser pads just sound right to me. No other way to really explain it.

    If I could not source stock pads and had to go aftermarket, I'd go with the Dekoni Elite Hybrid pads. To me, they commit the fewest sins of commission and retain most of the HD600's magic in the treble. Order of preference for me is: (1) Elite Hybrid; (2) Elite Velour; (3) Elite Sheepskin; (4) Fenestrated Sheepskin.
     
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  6. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    I'd started outlining a post to discuss my thoughts on the Dekoni loaner pads but totally not bullshitting, Zonto's impressions are pretty much the same as what I heard, only to a lesser degree with the Velour.

    Roon-->RPi-->Gungnir Multibit (B*)-->ZDTJr-->HD650M

    Nils Frahm, All Melody, Solo
    Four Tet, New Energy

    So, unless y'all want another wall-o-text from me, I'll just touch on a couple more thoughts, rather than rehash Zonto's impressions:
    • With all of the sheepskin pads, there's a bit of "bass-shaker" effect coming through the pads, a visceral addition to the increased tonal weight that is not unpleasant.
    • All of the pads do this kind of weird thing by seeming to provide more isolation, even though I doubt they really are, given the design of the HD6xx as an open-back can.
    • I'm now just working back and forth between stock HD650 pads and the Elite Hybrids - the Full Sheepskin pads do add some treble fuckery I'm sure is due to internal reflections, that I'm not pleased with.
    Adding another couple thoughts after comparing Velour to stock pads, back and forth:
    • The Velours added a slight haze, the best way i can describe it is similar to futzing with levels in Photoshop while retouching photos: if stock pads were the 100% un-retouched photo with good balance, the Velours are kind of like limiting the white content down from 255 to 245-ish, and then boosting the upper quartile value by a few notches towards pure white. It's like a dim sheen is getting added, if that makes any sense. Like a slightly cloudy clear coat or varnish has been flooded over the image.
    • The bass, sub 50hz, feels like it's emphasized by a couple db, but when looking at the measurements this can't really be the case - I do feel there's something to the "bass-shaker" effect here where the pads aren't adding any response, but due to the tactile conduction of the pad foam (and note, it seems like there are two different densities/types of foam, but can't be positive without tearing them apart - looks/feels like denser closed-cell at the base and lighter memory foam on the top 3/8"), i think ultimately it's a neat party trick. Not convinced that it works given overall balance of the pure Velour pads.
    • Did i mention they're all super comfy?

    * how are we supposed to be referring to Gungnir Multibit A2?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  7. maverickronin

    maverickronin Friend

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    I have the elite velours and they do provide more isolation since the foam is both thicker and denser.

    Of course being open back that only affects high-ish frequency sounds that are in front of or behind you since nothing else will go though or have to diffract around the pads.. On average that will slightly increase isolation and mostly be noticeable only as a lowering of the pitch of sounds with a rich harmonic spectrum.

    It's much more noticeable with high pitched sounds like my pet bird squawking at me. Turning my head directly towards her with the elite velours on my HD650s makes her quite a bit quieter.
     
  8. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    Got these in from the loaner tour on Tuesday. I did some listening yesterday and today, so here are my impressions.

    Disclaimer:
    I am heavily weighting in favor of how the pads interact with my glasses (plastic framed Oakleys). The creaking and squeaking caused by the stock pads is unbearable after 5-10 minutes.

    Chain:

    • Foobar2k > Eitr > Modi Multibit > early Jotunheim > balanced stock cable > HD650's
    Music used:
    • Rush - Moving Pictures - YYZ
    • Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here - Shine On You Crazy Diamond 1-5
    • Between the Buried and Me - Automata II - The Proverbial Bellow
    • Daft Punk - Random Access Memories - Give Life Back to Music
    • Rage Against the Machine - RATM 20th Anniversary - Killing In The Name
    Dekoni Sheepskin vs Stock
    • Turns the 650 into a bass-cannon
    • Treble is a bit rough
    • Significantly less creaking / squeaking on my glasses
    • Better isolation
    Dekoni Velour vs Stock
    • Sound is very similar
    • Slightly more bass
    • Slightly better isolation
    • Same creaking / squeaking on my glasses as stock
    Dekoni Hybrid vs Stock
    • More bass than stock, less than pure sheepskin
    • Smoother treble than pure sheepskin, not as smooth as velour
    • Better isolation
    • Same creaking / squeaking on my glasses as stock
    Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin vs Stock
    • More bass than stock, slightly less than hybrid, much less than pure sheepskin
    • Less harsh treble compared to pure sheepskin, not quite as smooth as velour/stock
    • Better isolation
    • No creaking / squeaking on my glasses
    The Fenestrated pads checked all the boxes for me. I considered the sheepskin bass to be too much, and stock velour to be too lean, so they hit a good balance. Treble is still smooth enough for me. Possibly the most important aspect is they don't squeak on my glasses at all. I Definitely enjoyed the Fenestrated pads the most, to the point that I ordered a pair of them already and even offered to buy these off Marv after the tour is over.
     
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  9. Jerry

    Jerry Friend

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    @LetMeBeFrank

    So, sonically the Elite velour is very very close to stock pads? What about details? Do these pads sacrifice any detail vs stock, to your ears?

    It is difficult for me to get the original stock pads. So, I will get the Dekoni Velour for replacement later if that is the case.

    Cheerz.
     
  10. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    Honestly it would be hard for me to say. They all seemed to have the same amount of detail to me, just a difference of tone. I wasn't specifically listening for it and nothing stood out to me as missing. If there is a haze or something it's very subtle and I missed it.
     
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  11. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    Some new developments.

    I got the pair of fenestrated sheepskin pads I ordered from Amazon (last pair, used warehouse deal) and I will be returning them tomorrow. They sound SIGNIFICANTLY different (super lean, no bass) than the ones on the loaner tour and I think I know why. They appear to only have one type of foam in them vs the obvious 2 layers in the loaner pads. Pic for reference:

    [​IMG]

    Marv has agreed to let me buy these after the loaner, so crossing my fingers they are still in good shape at that point.
     
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  12. ohshitgorillas

    ohshitgorillas Almost "Made"

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    I used to use the elite hybrids on my HD600 and they sounded great, for some reason they never worked with the HD650. Like, they absolutely murdered the sound quality. This confused the hell out of me for a long time because they're basically the same headphone... I realized that it came down to the foam pads, where my HD600 pads were intact but the HD650 had the quarter mod. Once I swapped the quarter-modded pads out for regular ones, the elite hybrids work just fine on the HD650.

    Lesson learned: don't use these pads + quarter modded foam. It's a very, very bad idea.
     
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  13. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

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    Some brief impressions from the loaner.

    On HD650:

    Velour: Bass boost. Did not like this with the 650. Really just highlights the flaws in the 650 bass. Super comfy though.

    Hybrid: Again, bass boost. Seemed a bit sharper though. Still prefer the stock pads.

    Fenestrated: These were okay depending on my mood. Mild bass boost and sharper treble, which wasn't such a terrible thing with the 650.

    Overall I vastly prefer the stock pads over any of these.

    I also tried a couple of the pads on the 600, which I wish I had done from the beginning. Had better results.

    Velour: Bass boost like on the 650, but wasn't annoying and muddy since the 600 doesn't have as much of a mid bass boost to begin with. It seemed to tame a little of the hotness the 600 can sometimes exibit in the upper mids/lower treble.

    Hybrid: Same as above exept I didn't think it changed much of the lower treble. Bass seemed sharper, maybe slightly better extension.

    Overall I think there is potential with pairing these pads with the 600. Would like to try them on my 580 sometime.
     
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  14. rtaylor76

    rtaylor76 Can't wipe his tag

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    These will increase bass in Sennheiser HD6X0 series. Every single one. It may benefit HD600’s more than HD650’s, but I did not like any of them with HD650’s for a few different reasons.

    Tested with:

    HD650’s

    Bifrost Multibit -> Dynalo amp
    SMSL Sanskrit 10th -> Liquid Spark

    Comfort and fit:

    These are bigger and memory foam, have a smaller hole for your ear. Since they are thicker increase clamping force, and just feel odd with the small comfort headband on the 650’s. It probably feels better with the multipad headpads on the 600’s. But lots of increased clamping force for sure.

    Sound -

    Before I have a comment or two on each pad, every single one made the 650’s sound like closed headphones. Something I did not think pads would do, but that is the feeling I get. I think the added “focus” that the pads having a smaller opening for ear and the fact they are memory foam really gets all the sound to your ear. When you look at the 600 FR compared to the Dekoni pads, you can see it is a pretty broadband volume lift of a few db from about 1K on down. Thus why the bass is increased quite a bit. Below the pads ranked in order of preference.

    The fact that Dekoni has posted FR graphs of the changes between stock HD600 pads vs. their pads should tell you that these WILL change the characteristics of the sound, no doubt.

    Fentrated pads: These are actually slightly brighter and more balanced than the Velor pads. I think the added reflections give a bit more sense of brightness. It really does not do much for localization. Still less details than stock pads.

    Velor pads: I found these the least offensive of the Dekoni pads for the 650. It does have a bass lift, but if you can get past that or have a lean system, the added “focus” does help with some low level detail. Still not the best on spaciousness and it is nice at time to hear really low bass on the 650’s, but most of the time, it is too much for my already warmish systems.

    Hybrid pads: These at first are confusing and have more bass than the Fenstrated pads, but never felt synergy from these.

    Sheepskin pads - These have the most bass and just overall loss of focus and high end. Much more muddy. Just no.

    Overall, not the same comfort and sound as the stock pads. Stock is much more of that warmer/neutral with that mid lushness and that enveloping sound. I felt the Dekoni pads have much more grunt and less finesse with increased bass and reduced highs.
     
  15. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better gear impressions than you

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    @Joshvar brought over his HD600 with the fenestrated sheepskin pads and we played around a bit on the T3/Gungnir Multibit (CD player spdif source).

    They were the difference between me wanting to buy a pair of 600 (with the Dekoni) and not (stock pads). Really supercharge the 600. Agree with the whole "sharpening effect" thoughts, but tastefully done. They honestly sounded boring with stock pads in direct comparison. Although to be fair the (650) stock pads are very slightly worn.

    On the 650 the Dekoni were not good at all. Just bleh.
     
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  16. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    Loaner measurements and impressions

    All these measurements are done with MiniDSP EARS, Schiit Fulla 2 (measuring dac-amp), and the SBAF-compensation curve (also read this thread). Also only HD600 was tested -- you can guess/predict/estimate what would happen to hd6xx, hd650, hd580, or hd58x though. Lastly, results are normalized at 1k hz.

    upload_2019-1-13_8-25-20.png

    upload_2019-1-13_8-25-31.png

    upload_2019-1-13_8-25-44.png

    upload_2019-1-13_8-25-52.png

    Notes and thoughts
    • Any of dekoni pads cannot be a good replacement for stock pads. They just sound too different. If you love how senn sounds with the stock pads, buy another pair from senn. Fortunately, senn takes very reasonable price for their pads, compared to notorious(!) focal.
    • Foam effect varies depending on which pads are equipped. Likely because of different (internal) reflections and absorption. While such disparity is partly guessed, actual measurements revealed way larger variance than expected. In general, I prefer foam removed for any dekoni pads.
    • Sheepskin is sonically the least preferred. Too dark and a bit dull. It kills all the good of hd600.
    • Velour is not as bad as sheepskin, but it's still darker than I would like. Moreover, treble sometimes sounds too edged or even sibilant (not always .. just for some tracks).
    • Hybrid and Federated pads sound rather similar. Major difference is that hybrid pads add some bloominess to upper bass region. Overall hd600 with hybrid pads sounds like well-used hd650 to my ears. If anyone want slightly darker but equally warm hd650, this combination might work. Interestingly, while I prefer the fenerated pads to hybrid regarding tonality, hybrid improves the headstage most meaningfully -- wider and deeper than both stock hd600 and hd650 without losing imaging sharpness.
    • Not much to add for fenestrated pads. I like these pads best among all the dekoni pads, particularly for hd600. TBH I cannot robustly determine which pads I prefer between stock and fenestrated ones. It's highly dependent on the mood (and perhaps gear pairing).
    • I am very skeptical about the effectiveness of any of these pads toward hd650.
    • As an aside, sbaf-comp really matches to how I actually perceive.
    • Also note that my hd600 pads are very new (purchased last Nov and very rarely used). Worn and new pads sound and measure very different (for upper registers).

    upload_2019-1-13_8-52-42.png

    ^ is the graphs only for foam removed.

    Thanks for the loaner opportunity!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
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  17. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Tried these pads with the MD HD6xx. I really wish I had my HD 600 with me as I think those would have benefited more, but the 6xx is what I have. Notes are very brief

    Hybrid pads - bass is boosted a bit compared to stock, but a little too much for my taste

    Velour pads - a little more relaxed compared to hybrid pads. Of the three I tried this is what I would go for

    All leather pads - similar to hybrid and very comfortable.

    Didn't try the fenestrated pads due to terrible planning. But i think i got enough time on the other three to know what each contributes. My HD6xx pair is unmodded and for the price these pads go, I think the sound improvements are worth the upgrade for the velour pads.
     
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  18. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    Quick impressions on kiss modded HD650:
    Sheepskin pads - way too much bass and wonky soundstage
    Velour Pads - sounded like a veiled stock pad
    Hybrid - elevated bass about 2dbs, moved the vocals forward

    Overall, hybrids were the best for my taste and ended up buying a set.
     
  19. Jerry

    Jerry Friend

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    How did you like the hybrid against thr stock pads, mate? It's a lot easier for me to get dekoni pads than stock ones.
     

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