HD800 (S) Ultimate Mod

Discussion in 'Modifications and Tweaks' started by Maxx134, Apr 27, 2018.

?

Are you satisfied with HD800 bass?

  1. yes

    18 vote(s)
    23.4%
  2. Its ok

    25 vote(s)
    32.5%
  3. Not really

    17 vote(s)
    22.1%
  4. Hell no, I want planar bass

    21 vote(s)
    27.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    Correct some of the measurements are of other rigs and from my observations most differences among rigs is the FR variations above 5k which vary but still with similarities.

    The impulse is more telling, as also the CSD as they pertain to other aspects, like speed and decay which are not system dependant.

    Thats where I realized every other impulse measurement I seen has a telling clues of damping after the initial impulse.
    I will elaborate soon with a comparison to my latest impulse.

    Anyways, imagine an HD800 with low end weight of a planar ...
    What would it take in measurement terms to have this?

    More to follow
    :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
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  2. Jerry

    Jerry Friend

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    Not your fault, mate.

    By the way, does the dekoni fenestrated reduce resolution, imaging, or other technicalities, compared to stock pads?
     
  3. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    No only the bass is slightly reduced.

    Here is a pic on mine with Dekoni pads (in front).
    20181031_184133.jpg
     
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  4. frenchbat

    frenchbat BritishBat's arch enemy - Friend

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    Looks like you have calmed down a bit. You keep saying you have solved the hd800, but your measurements don't show much of that.

    1.The frequency response of your "modded" pair still shows the massive 4kHz suck out of the hd800.

    2.The CSDs cut off at 400Hz which fails to show the "planar bass" you pretend to have achieved. Proper planar extends linearly down to 20/30Hz, I don't see any of that here.

    Moreover, while ultrabike told you right away that something was off with your impulse response and distortion measurements, you have presented nothing to address it, even though you said yourself you would.

    My post was a reminder of that. I assume you can get away with hand waving in other forums, I would like to think this is not the case here and that we have a higher standard.

    I applaud the commitment to get more people to hear your mod, but if you can't provide proper measurements, I would highly suggest you get in touch with someone who can.
     
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  5. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    First time I heard anyone complain about the 4k dip.
    It's too general a dip and many headphone signatures have dip in this sensitive area.

    It is my understanding that is so the headphone won't be so forward sounding.


    Your both correct & incorrect, but its my fault your misunderstanding.
    Most all CSDs cut off around that area or higher because of less useful information there, when measuring headphones...

    You answered my question as I agree proper that planar bass extends nicely way down to 20-30hz.

    Your correct the measurements here do not show this.

    If it were a more linear response, and about 4-5db higher in lower region over stock, that would more qualify as a planar type bass.

    I have this in my latest mod.

    My learning curve was evident but quick as I corrected the incorrect pic, but I guess I didn't mention I fixed the specific error I had in the software.
    We all have learning curve and I will always be thankful to those (specifically here) that helped me.

    I dunno how much more I can clarify my mod.
    I thought I text to much lol.

    Ofcourse we have members here that can do great measurements, but none of these guys are in NY, where I am at.
    I am all alone here lol.


    I don'tt feel my problem was "proper" measurements, but instead not enough in past.
    I remember in a mini-meet, member sphinx questioned me if I had data and measurements to support anything I said, instead of listening to my headphone.
    So I took that criticism and leaned from it.
    I can and will eventually post more measurements.

    What is it specifically that you wanted to see for a "proper" measurement?

    At first I was of the opinion, "hearing is believing", but realized that I have to both understand whats going on, and try to best explain it thru measurements, with use of the limited tools I have.

    I not saying I ended world hunger, or that I am any smarter than the average joe.

    I just like to take chances.
    I don't take company products at face value.
    I push beyond the limits.
     
  6. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    Here is a run-down of the measurements I posted about this current mod which shows how it supasses other mods.
    Capture+_2018-12-25-23-07-25(1)(1).png
    My measurements are not fully experienced , for example, in the impulse response.
    I been learning that to sound more like a speaker, the step response must drop below zero for a sufficient time to produce a net output of zero over time.
    An electrostatic does not do this, as it's negative drop is minimal. So it is unique in sound & clarity.
    These ideas can also be debatable, so I am always learning.


    Anyways, I had sold off the HD800 unit I had of this mod, but since then I sold off my Abyss Diana and HEKV2 since I only could use a closed headphone at the time .

    Then this past year I relocated and have my own space, so I once again came back to open headphones and came back the the HD800, but I was unwilling to accept that the hd800 was an even more apparent "face tweeter", compared to planars.
    Even the HD800S, which this thread mod surpass is a bit anemic in timbre compared to a planar or a biocelulous driver.

    So I redid the HD800 again(!) to have a less overall 4k general dip, into a sharper 4.5k dip.

    Then I also raised the bass level linearly about 8db from the 1k point, which should be at least 3db more bass than an HD800S.
    Overall it is a larger and deeper image than any HD800 whether stock or moded.

    To clarify, I do not have access to an HD800S, but instead my main measurement comparisons will always be to the "standard" SDR mod, which I consider the reference standard mod all HD800 should be expected to have by now, for most neutral mod.

    A plain HD800 is now unacceptable to me, and should be unacceptable to everyone as the SDR mod is such a popular achievement and a standard.

    Anyways, I also did a "clarity" comparison of this new mod (no name yet), and found that I had increased the clarity in the more usable midrange region.
    SDR:
    clarity  sdr.png

    New:
    clarity  new.png

    Here is the new FR:
    new  hd800.png

    It is not same as mod in this thread.
    20hz is slightly above 1khz, so that should qualify as substantial.
    It is still new and unnamed.
    I am trying to work on the 4.5k dip more, but my time is limited working on tube amps now.
    Will update in a future post once settled.
    Just wanted to inform.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
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  7. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

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    I personally cant wait for the new mods name to be given. Is "super most ultimatest bestest moar better mk1.69" already taken?
     
  8. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    Forgot the CSD:
    new  hd800 csd.png
    Cheers.
    Edit: old CSD I will update properly as suggested in future post.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
  9. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    Unfortunately, the new mod will delve into design, which is an area best suited for Sennheiser themselves to replicate.
    Yet they do not have to change the driver, or add things like center "resonator" to squeeze out it's full potential.

    Also, for those of you who have installed SDR type mods, what is not been known is that the front mesh has glue all over for a reason.
    the mesh needs to be secured over the driver completely uniform as it aids in frontal damping to correct a high freq resonance...
    Yet another thing not known.

    I also posted another topic not known, in another thread, about the thin membrane used under the stock pads.
    They essentially create a bass seal when connecting pads.
    The nicer larger Dekoni pads are the only pads NOT using a thin membrane, so they leak out a small amount of bass seal.

    It will be finished in coming months and will be called the HD800X
    Details & specs will follow.
    Currently dealing with tunning.
    measurements changed.
    reference headphone to compare will be the Susvara, so it will be hard task but I am getting closer.

    hd800X FR.png
     
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  10. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    You really need to do before and after measurements, otherwise it reads more like a really bad infomercial. Heck, even the anti-wrinkle cream infomercials show the before and after.

    You need to set your CSD parameters more appropriately, i.e., rise times, slice increments, time scales, normalization of levels to floor, etc. It looks to me that you are gaming the CSD measurement. And again, before measurements.

    I use an algorithm that uses a weighted average of the SPL with most emphasis between 5-10kHz. The CSD is then normalized so that this average is 30db above the floor of the plot. Using this method, your plot is only 20db above and as a result quite deceptive.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  11. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    I realize I need to do all these things you say to satisfy everyone.
    I was unable before, but I have two new drivers coming in so I can make proper before and after measurements.

    I will post my CSD settings and would greatly appreciate you post what settings you like me to adjust to.

    I don't like to go more that 25db because thats what I use to get faster impression when making quick adjustments, but I will do this setting for you done as well.

    My tunning is not finalized and regardless of infomercial impressions no one has done what I have done so far, so a bit of patience please as this mod is not same as last one.
    Previous comments of others was on last one.

    For naysayers, I have not done muting or dampening of my upper range, I am truly boosting the lower region & altered upper.
    I hope to have proper measurements this month.
    Apologies if anyone feels this is premature & infomercial as it is until finalized.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
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  12. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    Here are my REW settings for CSD, and also all my other settings in a zip file for everyone to chime in with any comments and advice so I can set it to have more uniform settings to others:
    REW CSD Settns.PNG
    thats a different headphone (old moded Denon7200 sig), but settings I use.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
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  13. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    You know the thread: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/measurement-setups-post-your-rig.141/

    @ultrabike 's CSD settings are on p.1, @sorrodje 's & @Serious 's on p.7. See also @philipmorgan 's measurement protocol on p.6 (post #106).

    As @purr1n said, it's good to set the floor around 30 dB down from the average or from interesting ridges or troughs in the low to mid-treble range to illustrate ringing in evil areas (see his CSD tutorial).

    Edit: Also, if the 'back wall' of your CSD is a bad match to your FR plot, check your impulse response - a big apparent pre-ring, likely caused by the ADC not being well clocked, will screw up the CSD. Minimize this by using a short sweep (256k) to make the CSD but a long one (1M) for the distortion display, which will otherwise look like hell (credit to Serious for this).
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
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  14. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    Hello all I have been away relocation yet again to the Bronx.
    Anyways since I do not have my latest mod finished and properly measured, I am posting this current mod to show it was more elevated in low end than the HD800S signature, and surpass both the HD800, HD800S in resonance reduction.

    Lets look at the 800 CSDs posted here and compare them to mine (they are all past 30db):

    HD800:
    HD800_CSD_Waterfall_plot.jpg
    See the ringing at 6-7k..

    Now look at the 800S:
    HD800S_CSD_Waterfall_plot.jpg
    Nice but still has some ringing.

    Now look at mine from this thread:
    HD800_S_Mod.jpg
    Clean in area of no ringing, and no large peaks.
    No need to reduce trebles if there is no ringing...
    Just an extended trebles elevation for details, air, and brilliance, while also having an elevated low end, which my CSD went further down to show.(200hz instead of 500hz).
    Mine looks different at left because of extension, but they all start to rise at 700hz point so I would assume similar decays if shown, but who knows.

    The only problem with my CSD, is going to 5 milliseconds instead of 3, but you can still see that most decay dies down way before 1 milliseconds, most before half a millisecond.

    Also, other type mods (rug liners, foams, or center inserts) have a perception of a more closed in Soundstage, partially by killing the 800 signature trebles, but that is IMHO.

    Anyways, just wanted to point out improvements and I plan my next version to have much smoother FR while elevated low end and zero ringing.
    Hopefully in next months coming will have some measurements to go over.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  15. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    This is the point where I was at in FR:
    hd800X FR.png
    But I anticipate a smoother one next.
    I purchased new driver elements so I can do proper "before-and-after" measurements, which I will also post the actual REW file for anyone to adjust views as they see fit.
    ETA should be within the next two months.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    You can post the third CSD with the same timescale to 2ms to be consistent with the first two CSDs?
     
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  17. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    Ok, not easy to match, but here you go:
    CSD HD800X 3MS.png
    :)
     
  18. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    forget that one.
    Here is 2ms CSD.
    HD800X CSD 2ms.png

    here is the FR for that CSD: HD800X FR.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  19. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    I can’t be the only one here that’s skeptical in a trying-be-non-offensive way. What butchery/sorcery have you done to that poor ring radiator?
     
  20. Maxx134

    Maxx134 no one will touch his boy parts without $$$

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    Different approach.
    Why try to correct a problem (undesirable response), with Just materials, when you should stop the bad behavior in the first place.
    I don't accept the bad behavior my "children". I force them to behave more like how I want. that goes for all of them (Denon, thxoo, HD6xx,hd800, & next is Sony mdr z7).
    Of course, not all listen. lol
     

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