Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Agreed the brain can't filter out those early reflections. It needs to be gotten rid of. There's barely any fixing it in EQ but it's better than nothing. Piles of books, coffee cans, cheap chinese stands, old bicycle seats from a junkyard, just needs to be fixed in any way possible.

    Every room sounds different. It's equally important to the speakers. More important if you're not running near or mid fields and your speakers are pretty good. Room to room will sound different.

    Agreed. My desk, a huge wooden desk I used to use for DJ gear and an old digital yamaha console but kept to play low sens fps games, greatly colored the sound until I got a taller chair and raised the speakers up. It is still coloring the sound but engaging the desk filter on eveyr pseaker I've tried sounds worse. You just learn to deal with it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  2. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    The brain will have a hard time discerning discrete sonic events in the 23ms range (but you will start to notice smear). In terms of flight distance 23ms equals roughly to 7,9 meters which can be achieved in most rooms with tertiary reflections. The desk bounce is how much flight? 1,5 meters? What’s the time delta between direct and bounced sound? The distance delta is less than a meter, so we’re dealing with a sub 2ms time smear. There’s no way in hell a human brain will tell the bounced sound from the direct one. They will sum up (or subtract) nicely. This is the reason why Neumann, Genelec et al. include these midbass EQ switches, countering desk bounce is a matter of just lowering the volume in the frequency spectrum which gets bounced.

    I do agree that using books or other stuff to lift the speakers so the acoustic axis is at ear level would be beneficial. However the main benefit will be in imaging. Having the speakers down low makes the soundstage appear to come from down under. Same goes for ceiling mounted tilted speakers - you get an unnatural elevation of the soundstage.
     
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  3. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    well in Asia, you live with your parents til you get married. you're right that i'm limited, but by choice since I listen mainly in my room and not the living room. decor/aesthetic is as important to me as sound, so i try to balance both in my room.

    I can get the isoacoustic stands, no problem. I just leave it there for the time being since I expect to get a much larger speakers that will bring the tweeter up my ears
     
  4. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    murphythecat, i'm taking the plunge and ordering graham ls6 through your recommendation.
    i heard graham ls5/9 the other day and the sound is unmistakably BBC.

    https://www.grahamaudio.co.uk/products/ls6/

    LS6 describes my needs perfectly, that I want ls3/5 but with more bass for movies, yet cannot afford to have a big 5/9 on desk.

    one thing though, is LS6 rear port. so what i'm gonna do is get sonarworks and EQ it. while trying to move my table out of that corner.

    what do you all think about this?
     
  5. murphythecat

    murphythecat Self Imposed Exile

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    Excellent choice.
    I didnt want to recommend the ls6 to you cause i never heard them, but from the reports of people i trust here and in other forums, i have the feeling the ls6 are some of the best nearfield you can get.

    Talk to @rlow here. he has had grahamh ls6, decapo be, dynaudio special 40, ATC SCM19, and many others. his preferred speaker is the LS6.

    Another member used to Have graham ls9, ls6, harbeth 30.2 and he preferred the ls6.

    so yeah, I think you made a terrific choice! let us know. I would get a measurements mic and understand my room modes and place my speakers accordingly before buying a room eq software.
     
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  6. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    yeah i saw that pic of rlow

    [​IMG]
     
  7. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    I love my LS6s, but I have them like 3 feet out into my room. The rear port could be a major challenge for you as it is large and a big part of the bass response. Also you’re still dealing with a resonating cabinet, so hopefully the isoacoustic stand will be enough. Depending what you can do with EQ, you may actually need to block the rear port with a sock or port bung, but that of course limits the low frequency extension. Also they need some serious power if you crave hard hitting dynamics (not necessarily SPLs, since you’ll be nearfield). What will you be powering them with?

    Bottom line, I wouldn't assume these will be a slam dunk running nearfield close to walls. Can you try them before committing to them (or at least get them used so you can flip them if it doesn’t work out?)
     
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  8. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    im powering them with a hegel h160, 150wpc so it should be ok.

    yeah i got them used. can't afford to get a new pair with such terrible room condition. takes 2 weeks for it to deliver from UK.

    oh well let's see.
     
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  9. Jozurr

    Jozurr Facebook Friend

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    How much does a DAC or an input impact the sound of higher end monitors? Has anyone compared using an ordinary interface like the audiobox ione or a mackie knob or pro-gear outputs from a panel, to say a Convert 2+goldpoint? or any other high end DACs?
     
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  10. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Anyone have advice for acoustic treatment? Any inexpensive solutions?
     
  11. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    I find my monitors are the most revealing of DAC differences vs HD600, 6XX, Andros and B&Ws by far. Scarlett solo 2 while not terrible is a clear step behind Gungnir, dac1541 and GO2A.
     
  12. murphythecat

    murphythecat Self Imposed Exile

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    diy
    Roxul safe and sound is the best bang for the buck. with each roll of roxul which cost about 40$, you can build 4 panels of 24" x 48"... assuming you want the panels 4 inch thick which imo is the bare minimum as thinner and they wont absorb low enough

    if you want clean frames, GIK acoustic now offer frames for about 25$ per panels. https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/diy-bass-trap-acoustic-panel-frames/

    say you need one panel for both side walls, 2 or 3 panels to cover the back wall, and 2 or 3 panels for your cloud. you can build a free reflective zone for more or less 300$.

    only treat the 1st reflection points. then add bass traps if you wants to. with careful speaker and listening position placement (read up the 38% rule for listening position placement) and treating the early reflections, i personally was okay to remove all my huge bass traps to free up the room. of course the bass was slightly tighter with my huge 16 inch thick bass traps, but imo treating the early reflections give more "space" for the buck.

    it'll blow your mind. the improvements a free reflective zone brings to the table are mindblowing
     
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    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  13. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Go to the local guitar/music centre and see what sort of recording equipment they have for rent. That's the easy way to get your ears onto the gear.

    The Mackie stuff kinda sucks though. Great mixers for live sound that you can run over with a truck, but the recording gear not so much.

    Walmart laundry drying rack = $10
    a bunch of old towels and blankets = Free
    Wife/partner/SO who thinks you just did laundry = priceless
     
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  14. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    I just heard Graham ls6 on a Cary audio aios amp. 75w a/b.

    It's absolutely awful. Vocals are not sweet and bass very porty.

    Im blaming everything on the amp. Fingers crossed.

    And the guy who promised to sell me the hegel 160 pulled out. Was wondering if Cambridge 80w is enough
     
  15. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Don’t.
     
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  16. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    What kind of position were the speakers/you in? Cambridge 80w as in CXA80? I would say that’s the absolute minimum, but taut bass may not be on the menu with that one.
     
  17. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    well im doing so just to not make myself feel bad over my purchase while its being shipped to me.

    but i really do think so. i trust murphythecat and rlow with their recommendations. it's impossible that graham can sound so dead and messy when the ls5/9 sounds sweet.

    one interesting thing is that the sales guy chose to play spotify over 16/44.1 when it can easily choose 16/192 or even 256. he said he likes it 44.1 cause it sounds more "analogue". I did change it to 192 after he mentioned it and the music sounds better, but then I do not have time to audition all my music again.

    it's pretty standard 1.5m apart and away. absolute minimum in terms of wattage or price range?

    the harbeth distributor here in Singapore loves to showcase the speakers with a phillip's cd player, $700 amp and $40 cables. he always convinces me that if his system can make it sound so good, we can do it even better. and I'm always blown away by the SHL5+
     
  18. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    In nearfield it’s about quality not quantity, but a lot of the time with a lot of the typical amp makers, higher power is also higher quality. With those speakers you want high damping factor and really strong and and fast, but not bloated, low end, which is something the Hegel should actually do quite well - the H160 at least. Other than the H160, the Rost or higher could also be a good choice. I wouldn’t touch the H80 or the H90 though - not enough power and the 80 has a touch of midbass bloat.
     
  19. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Er, Spotify is lossy - basic is OGG at 160 kb/s, premium 320 (if played through the app not the web player) so however the sales guy was playing it, there was some re-sampling going on. But from how you describe the sound it seems there might be a more fundamental problem. Was it a dedicated listening room, or a bunch of equipment just jammed into the showroom? If the former, how were the speakers placed relative to the wall and the listening position?
     
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  20. murphythecat

    murphythecat Self Imposed Exile

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    I was driving my Graham ls59 without any problem with my gainclone lm3875.

    this is a similar design using the lm3886 chip. the lm3875 and lm3886 are for technical reason the only two chips to sound as good as the original gaincard. the op preffered his lm3886 vs the 2500 kinki amp.
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/akitika-gt-102-power-amplifier.7690/
    oh, i think you can ask akitika to add a volume control on their power amp so it becomes a integrated. 50 wpc. no brainer

    imo, everyone should have a gainlcone lm3875 or lm3886 as they are so cheap and sound incredible. the other amp ive really liked was the Sony es-707. but the Sony would need refurbing.
     

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