Power Cables

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by cskippy, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    Then use the ignore function. I'm not going to stop posting because you don't like my tone. In any case, you're blowing the smarm thing out of proprotion. Reviewing the thread, I made all of three "smarmy" posts:

    That last one wasn't even directed at anyone in the thread, but a self-deprecating implication that I don't get sex. Any other smarm is entirely your interpretation and not my problem. So yeah, I think part of this is you taking this personally, or at least too seriously.

    Sure. I'm just taking the recommendation one step further. No different than Marv's comment, really; for many, spending $10,000 on audio is the same thing as never.

    Basically, yes. I'm well aware that commenting without experience is frowned on around here. I also think it's important to highlight the potential risibility of various comments in light of the simple aim of the original post.

    I already debunked this assertion. "Hurt", "screw over", use whatever language you want. Personal actions affect other people. What a notion.

    Purchasing trends affect the market, which affects what is available, which affects everyone, for better or worse.

    Sounds good. You're practically making my argument for me. And you're right, my point was indeed not limited to power cables; they're an example of a larger problem with the attitude and culture surrounding high-end audio.

    Speaking of which:
    This is not an argument. It's an expression of your personal opinion - again, one that is frequently repeated by audiophiles engaging in defensive post-purchase rationalization. No, you're not doing that here; but it's the same tune.

    Again, yes. My complaint is about mere existence of the market. People should demand better, for their own benefit if nothing else. To say nothing of me being "personally concerned" with how other people spend their money.

    Audiophiles like to decry the loudness wars. Around here, people like to complain about Head-Fi. All these things exist because there is a market for them. And while you personally may not be comfortable with complaining about them, do not be surprised when your admonitions to "move along" go ignored.

    I don't. NwAvGuy might have followed a misguided method, but he wasn't totally wrong about the bigger picture.

    The common theme here is that you think people should not care what others spend their money on and "move on". That isn't how I operate. If you truly don't want to engage with me, then either do as I suggested above and use the ignore function, or move on yourself.
     
  2. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    by the gawds you two are a bore. drop it already.
     
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  3. Huxleigh

    Huxleigh Wow, I made it this far without being a friend?

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    Ugh... I feel like there should be a sub-forum for threads like this. The endless argument that almost invariably erupts in response to topics like "power cables" doesn't do a thing to advance anyone's understanding of the subject. Both sides just bicker over trivial nonsense, ultimately contributing nothing more substantive than bluster and not-so-thinly veiled insults.
    Although, to be fair, I'll readily admit that pointlessly antagonistic comments are probably more worthwhile to read than is my bitching about them. :drunk:
     
  4. bobmysterious

    bobmysterious Rando

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    Chevy sucks, Ford rules!
     
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  5. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    All I can really say for sure is that I've had legitimately bad power cables before that crippled my system, and that it's fun to plug in a big AudioQuest power cable.

    That said, all but two power cables in my systems are Monoprice 14AWG.
     
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  6. Enigmatic

    Enigmatic Friend

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    I echo Luckbad's words.

    Power cables, in the grand scheme of things, tends to bring less improvements than one might want, not warranting such a heated argument. Some power cables I have used for my setup (with fancy plugs and thick stiff shielding) brought more of a negative impact to my setup in fact, and often only noticeable after prolonged listening sessions. I find my life simpler with generic power cable reterminated with a wattgate plug.


    But hey. What do I know. Heh.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  7. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    What did the Wattgate do for you? I ask because I just ordered a 14awg Tripplite cable and happen to have a Wattgate plug sitting around.
     
  8. Enigmatic

    Enigmatic Friend

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    Screwed up the sound less than a British MK plug did. I think it's the fuse in the MK plug. Noticeable bass bloom. But I am not going down the rabbit hole of swapping fuses lol.
     
  9. Bill R

    Bill R Rando

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    I've been through about 30k in power cords and have found them to be essential in tuning and getting the most out of equipment. I've kept about half of them, sent the rest back or sold them.
    On one occasion I terminated a 12 AWG generic cord, cut to the length I needed, with Cardas plugs. Did this just because I needed a 20" cord. After a couple of weeks, I replaced it with one of the Audiophile cords, thinking it would sound better. Long story short, I like the sound with the cord I made, and I still use it as is. There is most likely a 20" power cord somewhere in the world that will sound better, but I don't care right now.
    The moral of the story is you need to take a break from the upgrade path now and then, and enjoy what you have, including the music.
     
  10. winders

    winders Compensating for micropenis

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    $30K?? I'd like to see your equipment list....
     
  11. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    I'd love to hear short impression from you on the power cables you liked & felt improved your system.

    or which were overpriced & not worth the money.
     
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  12. Jozurr

    Jozurr Almost "Made"

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    +1
     
  13. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    I too have made my own power cables and still use them as a reference for any future cable purchase.

    Just making cables shorter with larger gauge wire seems to make a significant difference let alone other treatment and assembly techniques that can be applied, that all can add up to a really good sounding cable.

    And I too was puzzled why going to these 'extremes' should make any difference with the gear we use since it draws so little power in the 1st place.
    But I have repeatedly observed that they do make a noticeable difference and in conjunction with dialing in the metallurgy being used, along with contact patch enhancement (if applicable), that these techniques can 'tailor' the SQ to suit our needs.

    All this is a puzzle for sure, one that I will continue to pursue and investigate further, especially now that I have some additional measurement gear to peer into what is actually dynamically happening in real time.

    JJ
     
  14. spwath

    spwath Collegiate hijinks master

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    Just a question on power cables...
    Are multi thousand dollar power cables useless, because wouldent you be limited by the wiring in your home, which is not cryo treated silver?
     
  15. winders

    winders Compensating for micropenis

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    To add on to this, and I am not a "science guy", could someone explain how these uber expensive power cables can make a difference compared to a well made power cable of the proper gauge wire.
     
  16. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    That and its complimentary argument of miles of wire just to get to your home, is a common perspective, one that I don't share based upon my own experience.

    Now granted if your house wiring is crappy it will limit the power delivery to the gear.
    And improving this power delivery capability, in any of a variety of ways will help, and usually a great deal, assuming it is done well.

    So if your house wiring is crappy then in that case $$$$ cables would be a waste.
    But if you are able to spend that kind of money you should also consider 'upgrading' the power delivery in the 1st place.
    And yes in some cases (i.e. living in an apartment) it may not be as easy nor as simple.
    But there are means and methods to supply 'quality' power so that 'better' cabling will make a change for the 'better'.

    I suppose it comes down to priorities and one's interest in learning about this by finding out for oneself.
    Because that is part of the nature of this hobby, we learn by doing and if the desire (and capability) is strong enough 'better' can be achieved.

    JJ
     
  17. winders

    winders Compensating for micropenis

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    Sorry, I am not going to spend huge dollars on power cables any more than I am going to spend huge dollars on interconnects or speaker cables. Not until someone can show and explain how the sound quality is improved over properly built and sized product. For example, I understand how a Topaz isolation transformer works and how it provides cleaner power. So not only can I hear a difference...I understand why there is a difference.

    This all reminds me of the guy that changes a SATA cable in his computer and it affects the sound downstream through a network and 3 other devices. Not buying it.....
     
  18. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    As far as I know + have attempted to measure and listen to differences there basically are none. Wiring in your device is usually run of the mill copper, what does a cryogenic copper or silver do before it anyways.... In signal transfer (interconnects) it might have benefits, I have to admit.
    Even wire gauge should be of minimal impact to anything but high wattage power amps. Transformer in a dac for example will have it's output impedance determined mostly by sec winding and internal wiring.
    edit: I suppose in US and other 110V/120V mains countries the gauge issue is 2x more relevant

    Contrary to this @IceUul found that his audiophile cable made a difference in his place in city apartment, where admittedly some hf gunk is floating in power lines.
    On several occasions I couldn't tell these audiophile cables apart from CE (chinese export cables) in my listening tests in my countryside home with the same gear he used, not exactly mid fi stuff.
    But I did run a sqw through it and looked at scope, it implied (bowing) that it had quite a bit of capacitance that would form a low pass filter. This could explain his findings in his own place.
    Some pro gear I have repaired/teared down has a like a 1uF cap in parallel with null and line that costs 1 $, so there's your value for money in 100 $ cable.

    One thing often dismissed is the gear to be connected, Ragnarok is not the most bullet proof in terms of power abnormalities, reportedly. While stuff that I have built and usually use is shunt powered or otherwise quite robust to shitty power.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  19. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    AC involves the oscillation of electrons; when electricity is generated at a power plant, electrons do not flow all the way from there to your house. Same principle as air molecules and sound waves. So, the theory is that the closer the cable is to the device, the greater the potential benefit.

    The best cure of audiophile nervosa is usually an expensive gadget or three, so in that sense hi-fi power cables serve a practical purpose; if only temporarily.
     
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  20. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    It is fine to believe anything anyone wants to.
    In order to have an explanation, it's necessary to first look at the stuff that can be measured and is known.
    If all of those things are eliminated and didn't give an answer, then believe in special pixies and ethereal creatures inside your devices.
     

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