Schiit Gungnir 2 Impressions + comparo

Speaking of power supply, I'm actually curious how much of the improvements with gungnir 2 are because of multiform and/or because of the improved power supply. If you take a look at the gungnir 2 specs on the product page, it looks like it now has 13 stages of regulation up from 8 with the gungnir 1. For context, the bifrost 2 platform uses 8 stages (the bifrost 1 used 5 stages), and the yggrdasil platform uses "12 or more" stages.

We probably won't know how big an upgrade multiform itself makes until multiform cards come out for the yggdrasil and the bifrost and people start a/bing (Jason hinted both are planned in a previous live stream, 44:18 in), but it's interesting to think about if you're like me and believe power supplies can make a noticeable audible difference.

 

Better transformers, too.

Anyway no, I don’t think we should fool ourselves into thinking we are at a Rockna killer for 1600 dollars. There’s always that last bit to squeeze out if you’re willing to pony up the premium. But that’s what “diminishing returns” means. Even Marv talks openly about how Schiit DACs are not quite in the “TOTL” DAC arena, but how, with synergy in the right system, that doesn’t matter, necessarily.

 

Yup, midrange within the confines of the Schiit DAC ecosystem. All I was saying was that a DAC with new technology releasing beneath the TOTL models is a harder sell, as compared to the TOTL coming out first and then having the technology trickle down (and after close to a decade of users owning the TOTL model for both the price and performace). In other words, I'm looking forward to the comparisons like everyone else is. Specifically, I'm looking to see if the imaging of Gungnir 2 matches the Yggdrasil.

And just adding, I have zero idea what ORFAS is. Do I even WANT to know?

 

My Gungnir 2 is here and actively breaking-in. It's awesome. Unfortunately, I don't currently have any other DACs worth referencing for comparison so my impressions are not worth a whole lot. I'll just say it sounds really, really good (especially as compared to the internal DAC in my Bluesound Node Nano).

I am however experiencing a mix of cognitive dissonance and FOMO considering all the new tech on the way to the Yggdrasil. Especially after watching the latest Schiit live-stream.
-Singular is debuting with Yggdrasil in 2025.
-Multiform will likely be working it's way UP to the Yggdrasil (possibly another TI DAC8812 implementation or other designs with new chips later).
-Possibly a Jason designed, Nexus-based output stage for Yggdrasil.
-Jason mentioned they are still NOT done with multibit.
-And it even sounded like there was some other new DAC tech yet to be announced (couldn't find the timestamp).

I may have to pony up and go for the Yggdrasil. In reality, the cost is not that far off from G2. And another personal reservation is my affinity to what I remember of the Yggdrasil LIM from when I owned it back in '21/22. I loved that DAC. Particularly the tone, timbre and transience. And I may be willing to sacrifice other qualities for those attributes that I remember. But, I'm Not-Not enjoying the Gungnir 2. I won't go too much into detail (because I have no reference) - but with G2, I'm very much enjoying 2 things in particular 1) detail retrieval; and 2) there is still somewhat of a smooth transience that I'm enjoying similar to what I remember with the Yggdrasil LIM. Just probably not as 'dark' in tone and timbre. I'll stop there. So, this weekend I've spent some time reading LIM vs MIB impressions - and my GUESS is that I would fall in the minority camp favorable to LIM. So this is what leaves me longing for what might be to come with Yggdrasil upgrades (edit: especially considering MM's preference to the LIM and what is likely to be additional 8812 (with multi-form) implementations to the Yggdrasil.) I'm still trying to decide which direction I want to go.

 

Old Rich Fart Audio Society

 

if you're liking G2 you should just stick with it. The Yggdrasil stuff Jason is mentioning is probably a ways off, so for the foreseeable future you've got the latest and greatest in Schiit DAC tech. Yggdrasil has some nice stuff still (mostly choke input/power supply related), but with the G2 advancements, the gap is much smaller and there are advantages to the G2 tech for now over Yggdrasil, so the FOMO really kind of goes in the Gungnir direction, to some degree.

 

Gungnir in all forms has always been completely acceptable end game.

This coming from a guy who bought Gungir and upgraded to Yggdrasil but still, I had some epic times on my Gungnir A1.

 

Here's a timestamp for some of the Yggdrasil upgrade plan talk in the non-Schiitr stream:

https://www.youtube.com/live/OlylpeyEYmk?si=uOvgMDl3_4HCmFnz&t=1277

Sounds like for now the focus is on keeping Yggdrasil upgradable around the + chassis, not necessarily focus on "Super Yggdrasil" or whatever (so, the main board will stay the same for now). The Forkbeard upgrade will include Unison 384. Singular (the upcoming FPGA-based delta-sigma solution) will also come to Yggdrasil. Sounds like because of the way the Forkbeard/Unison board is shaped/seated, you will need a + chassis, and also there will be a DSP board swap. They're still trying to accommodate old chassis owners, though, so the details aren't really worked out.

Also, here's the newly revealed internals of Gungnir 2, from the Schiit site:

 

Yes, this.
It is not the thread to compare Schiit to stuff that is true cost no object stuff - two orders of a magnitude difference in price tag. In the latter market the consumer never even thinks about 'price-to-performance'.
Why not make a statement that everything in Schiit lineup except Modi are horrendously overpriced, as nothing comes close in price-to-performance? Yet, most discuss and desire their totl offerings.

What I say is there is quite a gap in sound quality. This is irrelevant for discussion to people who have not properly tested this stuff. Some tend to believe tech in super high price audio is made up and bling to justify the cost. Not true. If you use the finest of the finest of available tech - it costs. It can cost 10x in parts, 100x in development, it is all low prod volume, the chassis, which has to be bling to attract people with money. etc - and it adds up to 2..3 times the improvement in sound for 100 times the cost. That is what is the ceiling for now. I am glad it exists - so that it can be learned how to get most of it into sane price levels.

I like Schiit because they can pull off a tier or more in internals to be stuffed in cheap chassis and give next level sound to people whose pockets are not so deep.

Stuff I was hinting to makes Dave pocket change in comparison.

Indeed, we should. It is gear after all. And, there is market for both.

 

The APx report for the G2 was also posted and I'm a little surprised to see the rising crap harmonics in the 0dBFS FFT, with the 19th harmonic (!) being the highest. That said, it'd be nice to see a -3dBFS FFT to see if that's just a full scale artifact.

Is the single-ended output just using one phase of the balanced? Is it separately buffered?

 

Many thanks for that bass reassessment.

Question: Which particular Aphex Twin track or album (in case you remember)?

 

I forgot to comment a while ago when this was posted, but I still wanted to get my thoughts out there:

This! Many different approaches to good sound with speakers.

Dispersion is key:
the two you mentioned are very different approaches and will lead to a very different directivity. I'm a fan of speakers with smooth directivity. I know @Priidik likes a wide open sound and I have a speaker in the pipeline with the same design goal.

For now I think controlled directivity sounds good and I think nulls in the upper midrange (mid to tweeter XO) sound bad. Unfortunately that's a given with speakers with a mid and a tweeter.

Obviously that's just the measurements. And measurements for speakers are pretty straightforward, but not easy: Measure at the listening distance in anechoic conditions and rotate the speakers both horizontally and vertically to get their FR. Software like VituixCAD does the rest.

Now from a subjective standpoint there are many important factors: Crossover slopes and the part quality, driver quality, enclosure quality, feet, cables, connectors, etc.
I like snail horns like the WE15a, modern skinny flagship Accuton speakers, but also paper drivers if done well, cardioids, dipoles, omnis, etc. I think there's merit to all.
And of course I'm a nut for good widebanders used for low mids and up. I even listen to my cardioid monitor speakers more than the Voxativ OBs.

 

You're probably right - in that I should just keep it and enjoy it. I'm too focused on the gear right now. With a bit of time - i'll settle back into the music and forget all about the FOMO. It's great so far. And it look's like @purr1n 's impressions are coming back favorably. If I were to upgrade to Yggdrasil, I'd probably be most favorable to waiting for the next iteration. And unfortunately I'm not sure I can wait that long. If the next "Brown Wednesday" sale includes additional discounts to the GS2 or LIM, I MIGHT go that route. But again, I can't decide. I am currently enjoying the G2. I also like the form factor.

 

That new digital board is massive, any idea if the new clocking scheme will be talked about more? It seems like a big technological improvement, even the clocks on the usb look larger.

 

Jason said the new digital board got a lot bigger to support the new Unison 384 bitrates. Apparently the existing ones didn’t have enough bandwidth. Not sure if that’s the full extent of the changes however, @schiit may be able to weigh in.

 

Some of it was the isolation transformers (usually used for Ethernet) they use in Unison for galvanic isolation - they had to add another to accommodate the higher rates. Keep in mind too that this is one large board for all of the digital inputs, as opposed to a separate board for Unison.

 

I need to go back and read all these posts before here, but I have been curious about Gungnir 2 on speakers because...Yggdrasil+ LiM and MiB both present sound in a certain way on speakers that I have been discovering...don't quite land where I want to land...

I am not ORFAS but I glean from friends who are closer to that, that that market is very large, or at least larger than you might think. (Hmm, sentence with three "that"s in row, how about that?) I also am glad it exists so tech or ideas trickle down. I would love to see a future Yggdrasil with better power to address the MiB's "delicacy" (if there's a correlation), and Ethernet input instead of USB so the signal format can remain as unchanged as possible. Perhaps Jason's "we're a software company now" posts elsewhere may eventually turn into Yggdrasil being an Ethernet input streaming DAC preamp? Forked would fit right into that, wouldn't it?

Anyway...thanks for these impressions on Schiit over speakers. Yes, you need a reasonable room/house to play ball but for me it's the way the bass and the sound make me, uhhh, ummm...well, yeah...vibrate.

 

Basically Gungnir 2 is different than anything that has come before.

In addition to parallel transformer isolation for more bandwidth for 384fs rates, it also uses programmable oscillators and probably a dozen different tricks that Dave and Mike didn't tell me about. The input board you see is really just USB; the SPDIF/AES stuff is underneath. Also the DSP board is the tiny perpendicular one next to the analog output. Better for inconvenient DSPs that might use horrible packaging. This is nearly as upgradable as Yggdrasil in a much more rational package size.