Schiit Jotunheim 2

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by PacoTaco, Dec 22, 2020.

  1. Dzerh

    Dzerh Friend

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    @LuckyX2 , are you giving generic advice in pretty categorical form about amp you haven't heard in response to somebody's impression about that amp?
     
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  2. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    @LuckyX2 Ok, now things look a little more understandable. I like your edits better than the original statement, too.

    A few thoughts below.

    1. Taking half of the signal is bad --> This needs more supporting logic. On theory, differential operation mostly kill even harmonics. I am very highly unsure if I can say that direction simply "superior" or "inferior". Avoid strong statements unless you're already expert.

    2. Balanced-first design --> Also questionable. Of course they want to design to do balance. But nexus, more originally pivot point, isn't all about purely balanced and differential. The design goal was to get equally good outcomes if I understood Jot 1, Rag 2 and Jot 2 chapters correctly.

    3. Measurements. Partially related to #1. Calling one measured result is "better" than the other one needs way, way, way more thoughts, logic and evidence than you simply put. Not to mention (always controversial) stationary signal measurements.

    4. Needless to say Marv is one of the most respected members. But I do NOT think making subjective arguments relying on someone else's assertion (even if he's expert) without your own experience is a good practice in sbaf. Synthesis is of course possible, particularly when only few data points available, but should be carefully and thoughtfully done.

    5. Coming from ex-A3 owner, I can comfortably say A3 and Jot 2 SE ARE different. One can be preferred to the other depending on situations. I still believe ignoring personal variance, preference, and pairing is one complete BS in this specific context.

    Overall, I still see your first post as noise. I do enjoy Jot 2's balanced outs better but that's a different story.
     
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  3. LuckyX2

    LuckyX2 Rando

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    I am taking statements from a member who has heard balanced vs SE and clearly preferred balanced and combined them with measurements also supporting the claim that balanced seems to be the way to go on the Jot 2. Synthesis as Vtory just called it, taking two 1st hand data points and combining them.

    I'll provide my personal opinion when mine arrives. I should be able to have quite a wide array of testing since my cumulative hardware is:

    DACs: Modi 3, Modius, Bifrost 2
    Amps: Asgard 3, Magni 3+, Vali 2, Magnius, Felix Echo, Jotunheim 2
    Headphones: Focal Utopia, ZMF Verite, Meze Empyrean, HD6XX, Meze 99 Classic

    The supporting logic is the measurements combined with purr1n's subjective analysis. Doesn't get more supporting than that, both measurements and subjective tests saying it's better.

    Again, I retract my Asgard 3 comment as an over-simplification, please ignore that.

    Also, it seems you agree with me the balanced is better, not sure where the issue is.

    My intention was simply to point out evidence that the balanced seems to be quite a bit different and better on the Jot 2 going from subjective accounts and data. I see people drawing conclusions based on the Jot 2's SE performance and I disagree with doing that since that seems to be the clearly inferior output on this model. At the very least, it should be clearly stated which output is being used, I'm not seeing that in all of the posts.

    It seems my error was not being wordy/specific enough in my original post, I didn't think I had to spell it out this far. Thought I was making a fairly simple claim that the balanced looks to be the much preferred choice on the Jot 2.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  4. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    SBAF sprit as long as I am concerned isn't about true/false or right/wrong. This is audio. For most of stuffs we just don't know. Both objective and subjective matters can be wrong. That's not my point at all. In other words, I don't bother whether your assertion per se is right or wrong as a "result". Paused clocks can tell the right time twice a day.

    "you agree with me the balanced is better" .. No .. how can you not properly interpret such a simple sentence.

    I like X over Y conditioned on C <> X is better than Y on C <> X is better than Y

    If you can't figure out the difference among these three (and better <> preferred), you need to lurk more.
     
  5. LuckyX2

    LuckyX2 Rando

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    I still stand by people shouldn't draw conclusions on the Jot 2 by the SE alone and if that's how they're reviewing that, they should be very clear about it. Because chances are, most will prefer the balanced. This is my ONLY point.

    If someone likes the SE on the Jot 2 better, that's perfectly fine, you do you. I'm not saying those people are wrong.
    It's impossible to be wrong about personal enjoyment.
     
  6. Brubaker

    Brubaker Rando

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    Just to be clear, Marv only used the 6XX in his review and pointed out that synergy could be a factor in which input was better or preferred.
     
  7. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    Listening to Jot 2 on HD800SDR and HD6XX, the Bal out is better than SE out. Clarity is 2/3 step better, treble quality is less flattened, and probably most obviously more blackground, maybe going from 8pm to 10pm. Balanced input in both cases. It's less of a hit than when you go Bal out to SE out on MJ2. That is a full step, maybe step and a quarter, down in everything above.
     
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  8. Gazny

    Gazny Almost "Made"

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    @LuckyX2 Comparing any amp purely on one aspect of its performance envelop is so idiotic.
    We all have different transcoders, and thinking our one use case is the absolute sound is nothing but cutting anything short. I wont tell you I dislike what you strive for, but simply stating if I want SE I should get an asgard 3 is not a good take; hot or not express your experience than a simple facets interpolation on numbers on a graph.

    Takes no consideration to what else one might have, THD+N or not. THD is not representative to actual performance regardless of value.

    Hard to disagree with @Dzerh have you even heard this? Just simply disagreeing with non context or personal experience? Have you read @Vtory experience

    Did you mean this?
     
  9. LuckyX2

    LuckyX2 Rando

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  10. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    @Vtory & @LuckyX2 ... please consider taking this back/forth to PM rather than mucking up the works here. And while you're at it, you guys should discuss something really important... like, Geno's or Pat's (answer... neither - John's Roast Pork is the best)
     
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  11. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Ok, now I can more clearly say it's all about synergy and matching. I definitely prefer to hear SE over balanced outs when Verite equipped with BE2. This specific pair of pads have never gotten my love for years but finally starts showing its excellence.

    Compared to bal outs, SE does have more bloom, more relaxation, and more laid-backness. And maybe slightly more engaging to me conditioned on this configuration. Still tighter and brighter than Asgard 3 from the memory, but more importantly huge technicality gaps in many aspects. Less like A3 but more like Lyr 3 -- Indeed "L3 on steroid" could be the closest to my perception.

    Using car analogy, J2 sounds more like a racing machine in its bals, but its SE behaves like a luxury GT car. More specifically..

    • Albeit no dramatic timbre changes, I can hear more wetness and liquidity with nearly every track I threw in.
    • Rounder transient (overall more spot on), a little more proactive and frequent commissions. But not much changes on omission and loss side.
    • Less slamming, but still better than most amps I experienced. At least more than I need.
    • While I don't think this purely attributable to J2, BE2's boxy staging (my major complaint over universe pads) mostly gone with J2 SE -- switching back to bal, I feel annoyed again.
    • I also tried both SE and balanced inputs. I am not confident to say I can tell them apart.. M4 seems fairly even in its outs.
    Of course all above could be confounded by various elements such as sabre source (ES9016-based M4). Still I can't say SE is better than Bal. What I can say, however, is this combo bonds me music in ways I've not expected.

    What a lovely sounding..

    PS. Because I'm using the ignore feature from this afternoon, may not see and respond to what are blocked to me. The system hides anything containing my ignore list.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  12. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF Gearmaster

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    This should surprise literally no one. The HD6x0 stuff, all things being equal, seems to like more power. Seems to be a similar case with HD800.

    I'll let you in on a secret with HD800: for some unknown reason, the HD800 benefits from truly balanced drive. Don't believe me? Try it for yourself.

    I spent way too much time with my own Starlett mucking around with different headphones trying to see if I can hear a single difference between tbe balanced headphone drive and unbalanced. HD800 was the only one where this mattered. Utopia doesn't care, none of the HD6x0 headphones care, Verite doesn't care. Only HD800.

    Also, discussion about this stuff isn't necessarily bad. Just annoying when people are being a combination of obtuse and pedantic.
     
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  13. bilboda

    bilboda Florida boomer

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    Oh dear no. I can't. So many variations that can turn results on their heads. Got lots of pads for lots of phones, cables and dongles. I am glad you discovered this but it's just another rabbit hole for me. I really like the Jot2. If I didn't have ZDS, I would really really like the Jot2 but since the Black Amp came through I don't think it will get better than that, and now this. Just gonna have to put my head in the sand and wait for my BA to arrive. Gotta cope somehow.
     
  14. jaker782

    jaker782 Facebook Friend

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    Edit: Moved to relevant thread to not muck up Jot 2 discussion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  15. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Hahaha I know what you feel like. Been there (and still there) with a petit scale. At the end of the day, I do think it's all like having control levers.. and the issue is a matter of how many levers I want to have or I can afford (not only money, time/energy/etc all considered). I don't think single lever fits all. I don't think infinite levers manageable, either. Naturally, there must an optimal number of levers that make me happiest. This largely summarizes my audiophiling view.

    The reason why I pull out other pads was I wanted to dial in. J2 bal out was pretty darn good on average, but the grado I tested with SE (limited by its termination) surprised me. While most elements could be also heard with verite, I couldn't think every delta I discovered with SE harmonized with verite well. Messing with some levers for a while (indeed I tried the other four pads I am having haha), I finally made it sing.

    Takeaway is I do prefer having multiple levers. Some may like more levers. Some less. Some opts for only one. All cool. Jot 2's SE/Bal also a lever for me. Quite useful lever for different flavors. Not using one of them at all is not my kind or approaches.

    Also like anything in life. Some compromises always required. For example, I largely ignore senn revision difference (I believe there exists such.. but I don't think it is the lever I want)
     
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  16. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Oh! Moved to the appropriate thread
     
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  17. Lautreamont

    Lautreamont Rando

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    I just picked up an HE6se V2 and and a Liquid Platinum and it's a good pairing. Is there reason to believe Jot 2 will do better with HE6se V2?
     
  18. bilboda

    bilboda Florida boomer

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    I'd try the Bas-X first. The Jot2 and my V1 HE6SE make an exciting match, extreme clarity, with one harsh exception on one song that makes me wonder if it just doesn't have sufficient power all the time. My $125 Adcom speaker amp synergizes really well with my hifimans.
    2 test tracks I use from Tidal.
    Try and Love Again by the Eagles. The guitars in the left and right channels become painful with this gear.
    Cheers To The Fall by Andra Day, the final chorus hits your ears like 2 pancakes, a flat wall of sound. The background singers are much more musical and separate in all other set ups.
     
  19. HotRatSalad

    HotRatSalad Friend

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    Sorry my experience is limited to HD6x0 Aeolus and LCD2. I'm sure other will chime in though.
     
  20. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    My 2 cents.
    • Do not have a second thought when you have pleasing combo around you.
    • If v2 is more or less v1, you'd better consider power amps albeit there are some head amps driving he6 decently.
    • I just don't like to pair jot2-level bright amps with he6 any day. Far from what I love to hear for hours.
     

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