Turntable advice

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by Falcor, Oct 10, 2015.

  1. murphythecat

    murphythecat Self Imposed Exile

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    The denon dl-103R is just ridiculously good for the money, but the trick is to have a arm heavy enough for it to work. The sl-1200 arm happen to be heavy enough, and its also a killer table in its own right. then, only thing left is to have a phono with enough gain to work with the 103R which is a Low MC. when all the 103r requirement are achieved, you are in high-end analog world. Any complaints for the 103R will be by a unsuitable arm ad/or weak phono having not enough gain/ poor loading. Then, mod the sl-1200 PSU, add weight to its base (at least 10 lbs) and build a isolation platform for it. DONE all this well under 1000$
     
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  2. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    While we're talking Denon...

    Any opinions on the Denon DD tables - DP 1200, 2500 etc.? These can often be found pretty cheap without arms, and even with arms, way cheaper than a complete Technics 1200.

    And presumably the Denon arms would work well with the DL carts? On a quick scan of vinylengine I don't see effective mass...
     
  3. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    I've heard good things about them but don't know about specific models or how much spread in quality across models
     
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  4. Jalsar

    Jalsar Facebook Friend

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    I’ve owned 2M Red, Blue and Bronze and MP-110 and MP-200.
    I love the MP-110 for the sub $150 cart. Least amount of surface noise with a warm full sound. The Red is a little too hot for me.
    Blue was pretty neutral, I like it a lot more than the red. MP-200 is just a more detailed MP-110.
    Bronze was my favorite. Very detailed and balanced. Works super well with my Klipsch speakers.
    Ending using the MP-110 on my old turntable that I use to play old or noisy vinyl. Bronze is on my main setup.
    I’m not great at describing sound.
     
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  5. The Life

    The Life Facebook Friend

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    I used a Denon 103r on my VPI classic for a while and, while I LOVED the sound, I just couldn’t keep it from having IGD on like 25% of my records (whereas I have none whatsoever on the same records with the Denon 301). I assume it’s because the 3D arm is too light for the 103r.
     
  6. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Nice. $3k opens a lot of possibilities, so definitely widen the search. A few off the top of my head to consider, which I suspect on the used market can be found in the $3k range.

    1. Roksan Xerxes 20. Probably the one that sticks in my mind the most at around this price. Packs a real punch with no need to go all warmbutt with the cart. There might have been a revision or two over the years and I don't remember details anymore; so you'd want to research.
    2. Clearaudio Performance with DC motor. Heard this one in a system that was running $50k speakers and it was totally legit. I like it better than the Concept Wood model for sure. Really nice TT. Saw one a while ago for just a hair over $3k with arm on USAM.
    3. Acoustic Signature WOW XXL. Really well balanced sound, nicely built. Maybe a tad soft IIRC, so pick cart accordingly and probably not an issue at all.
    4. The Nottingham tables are also really nice. Whenever I've heard these, they've been paired with pretty pricey arms and carts though. But they're good enough tables for that, which says something.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  7. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    I think he could almost get into a Hyperspace with that budget. But like you I've actually never heard the table stock with a reasonably priced cart. The one I heard actually had a Verus rim drive installed.
     
  8. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    Do either of those VPIs have easy VTA adjustment (on the fly)? If you like to mix thick and thin vinyl, in your rotation, it might become important...
     
  9. Jalsar

    Jalsar Facebook Friend

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    It really depends on how picky your stylus is with vta. I would upgrade to a 2M Black but they are much pickier than the Bronze when it comes to VTA. So, I don’t bother with messing with It. I set it for 180 gram (85% of my albums are 180) and leave it. You could also get a very slim mat to raise standard vinyl to the height of a 180 gram. I could be talking blasphemy but I can’t tell the minute difference.
     
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  10. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    I greatly appreciate everyone’s advice here and on PMs. After reading through many threads, I picked up on a few common threads. I always try to learn from the trials of others and greatly appreciate @deniall83 posts regarding his struggles.

    I’m thinking of following @luckybaer and going after a Technics SL-1210GR or even waiting for the SL-1200MK7. I think I could get a Nagaoka MP-110 or 150 and be happy with my franken TC750 or Mani.

    As I was looking into more esoteric and OOP tables I could foresee myself investing way more money than I really want to at this point.
     
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  11. Decomo

    Decomo Facebook Friend

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    Thank you for sharing the tip and can you share a link how to mod the PSU? I guess that you mean replacing Power Supply Unit to external linear Power supply?
     
  12. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    One option: https://www.kabusa.com/m1200.htm#ps1200gx

    edit: fixed link
     
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  13. Decomo

    Decomo Facebook Friend

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    Thank you very much. PS1200GX Power System is quite pricey but I guess that it is worth it. I might do the other mod first before PS upgrade. The wooden plinth on the web looks attractive for sure. Thanks again.
     
  14. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    I think the Technics may be a good choice, but they will definitely sound different from a Classic 1 or a TNT. Idler wheel, belt and direct drives will all sound different. I think, for all the tradeoffs, and depending on what you listen to (classical/jazz or EDM/death Rock) speed stability will rule.

    As an aside, idler wheels on any table not positionally locked in (ie Tnt and a rim drive) without speed monitoring is not worth it. There are ways to get feedback in and get it stabilized, and that gets pricey.
     
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  15. Boops

    Boops Friend

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    Can anyone advise on whether a United Audio Dual 1229 turntable in good condition is a desirable piece of gear? I have a friend who passed away and am looking to pass on some info to his family about which pieces of vintage stereo equipment may be worth selling.
     
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  16. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    I found this thread that should give you some idea:
    https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/dual-1229-for-175-too-good-to-be-true.691306/
     
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  17. lehmanhill

    lehmanhill Almost "Made"

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    Does anyone have experience with a VPI Classic or Nottingham Spacedeck and an AR ES-1 or even an XA? I would like to hear how much of an upgrade would the VPI or Spacedeck provide. Of course, I recognize that the AR tables are very different philosophy than the VPI or Spacedeck. That alone might be significant.

    I currently am using an AR ES-1 with the Merrill poly platter and lead mat. It also has the Merrill mod motor and carbide ball in the bearing, plus DIY plinth and chassis damping. These tables have a good reputation, especially with the Merrill mods, but I keep wanting more from vinyl and am thinking it will take a new table to get there. To be honest, I have my digital path working well enough that it beats the vinyl most of the time. I know, sacrilege.

    My analog chain starts with a Music Maker III moving iron cart, the ES-1, and a DIY phono pre designed by Stuart Yaniger, a hybrid tube/solid state pre with excellent measured and subjective performance.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  18. Pogo

    Pogo Friend

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    I ran an AR The Turntable, mostly stock with the factory arm and a Shure V15MR from 84-96, like a damn fool sold it after my then toddler went DJ Mode with it.
    It was the best analog rig I ever had or will ever have.

    That being said, it was still a 1962 design with mid 80's technology at a mass market price. Merrill's mods reportedly are a significant upgrade that brought it up to Linn standards, so that's were you are now.

    You didn't mention your tonearm?

    I've not owned the VIP classic, but I have spent many hours listening to a friend's rig.
    It's better speed stability is immediately obvious, as is the midrange clarity although that might be due to his Ortophon MC cart, sorry don't remember which model.

    We're I looking to upgrade from my current H/K T60 /Van Alstine mods/Shure ML140HE rig a VPI would be on my auditioning list. But I do spend a lot more time in digiland /headphones now and can't justify the expense as much as I still love vinyl. But only thru 2 channel....
     
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  19. lehmanhill

    lehmanhill Almost "Made"

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    Thanks Pogo,

    You have encouraged me to go further down the road with the AR. I know a VPI would be an upgrade. In fact, the guy I bought the AR from had done most of the mods and improved the AR over almost 9 years since new, but he replaced it with a VPI which was enough better that he put the AR in the box and left it in the basement until he sold it to me. I guess the question is cost benefit ratio in going to a VPI or similar table.

    As for the tonearm, it is the original AR tonearm which is a Jelco SA-250ST with AR branding. Actually, I never understood how this tonearm works until today when I figured out how to open the top and get to the "cross point pivot". I had always thought the tonearm was a bit sloppy and I found I could adjust out the slop, once I got inside. So I think I will go down the road of setting it up again with low slop in the bearings and see what that does. If that isn't good enough, I will consider a tonearm upgrade or the full jump to a better table.
     
  20. Pogo

    Pogo Friend

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    Bottom line, the VIP has a longer tonearm, as my wife reminds me longer is better....Call George for advice about recommended replacement tone arms. Warning: he can talk your ear off on this subject!
    And there is this truth: a suspended deck has a different sound than non-suspended belt drive decks, the emphasis is more towards low frequency clarity and drive vs high frequency drive. (Won't even get into direct drive here been ther,done that , meh)
    And a warning to you: you might feel bored with your current rig but hang on to it until you are convinced that it's replacement is supperior. Given what AR decks can get in today's used market (stupid silly prices) you might find yourself regretting the sale, as did I
     
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