Firearms

Discussion in 'Outdoor World' started by e.schell, Dec 12, 2020.

  1. Boops

    Boops Friend

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    I dip into the firearms thread out of curiosity and am rewarded with an image of you taking out prairie dogs with a sniper rifle. Those poor bastards.
     
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  2. KenAR

    KenAR Rando

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    You may want to consider the HK 45 compact, solid build and with proper maintenance it is reliable. If you seek to stick with a Glock, best bet is to stick with a 9mm version like G19. With the right 9mm load is quite effective in terms of stopping power.
     
  3. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    Yeah, people think they’re adorable but the ranchers disagree. “Dog Towns” are a real hazard for cattle when grazing because they can collapse a burrough and break a leg. So some ranchers poison them. If you ask permission a lot of ranchers would rather you shoot em.

    it’s great practice shooting on a dog town at long range. They get smart to man with gun and warn each other. But sometimes you get lucky and find a fresh town where they don’t know humans and you can sometimes get within 50 feet of them. That’s when we roll up playing “Paint it black” at loud volume, hop out and rain hell on dog town. Good times.
     
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  4. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Friend of mine who lived out in the country side also mentioned that the other big problem, regardless of if you have cattle or not, is that prairie dogs and many other similar prey species attract wolves and other dangerous predators to the area as well - not something you want in your yard, especially with young children.

    On a somewhat similar note, I'm amazed that CO voters and I assume some scientists / bureaucrats / feel-gooders decided to reintroduce wolves. Don't think most people realize that as a protected species, with more people more spread out than before, more laws against discharge of firearms as populations grow, etc... that this isn't going to end well. On top of that they're going to lose a lot of hunting based revenue with the wolves likely decimating the herbivore population that no longer knows how to deal with them (i.e. not just the hunting license revenue, but the fact that hunters from all over the US go there to hunt and this inevitably supports the economy in various ways).
     
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    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  5. luckybaer

    luckybaer Friend

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    I've been told those xDMs are great shooting, easy-to-maintain firearms. I've also heard that when you get to the point where the firing pin retaining pin needs to be replaced, find one a little more rugged than the standard. You'll get more rounds through it before needing replacement. Kinda like synthetic motor oil vs. conventional, I suppose.
     
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  6. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Was reading someone's thoughts on various drivers for consumer product development (for work and also my own general understanding) and 2 completely random things popped into my mind:

    1. How many people here know someone (or multiple people) who bought their first firearm mostly due to 2020 craziness and covid? How many of those first time buyers were under 30? Lastly, how many of these people fit into the "you can just tell this person isn't our normal demographic types" to some degree or another - think Bernie stickers, Prius, etc. Not like age or race or whatever as this data is already collected via FBI background checks. I know this is an audio forum, but I want to ask in a more neutral place than a guns forum, anti-guns forum, etc.

    2. Most "common" firearm technology is stuck in the 1950's at best, if not pre-1900, with only some incremental improvements here and there. Without major relaxation of manufacturing restrictions, globally and in the US, and an increase in demand (demand and incentive to get more people designing more new things, like any other new tech) - is it likely that we're going to see any real improvements in the next 30-50 years?
    I suppose I could ask this at a gun forum, but a lot of us work "in tech" or in some sort of product development capacity, have STEM degrees, etc. and probably have more insight on developing new stuff vs. Joe-enthusiast who is say a doctor or accountant or whatever.
     
  7. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    1. I don't personally know anyone that bought a firearm because of covid-19 or Biden fear. 90% of my friends are in their early 30s. I have a mix of libertarian, liberal and conservative friends and most of them already owned some type of firearm, wether a shotgun or handgun for home defense, or more. This is probably due to 99% of my friends living in or around Detroit, where most people realize you should have something for home defense.

    2. I think ammunition, light weight materials and getting more shots on target are where the biggest improvements in firearms tech will be in the near future (5-10 years).
     
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  8. Bobcat

    Bobcat Friend

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    The biggest innovation area in firearms right now isn't the gun itself, but the in the sighting mechanisms. Small red dot sights on handguns is now a thing that is becoming much more common. Carbines now are routinely fitted out with holographic, red dot or variable optics starting at 1x. And of course, very high power scopes on rifles while costly, are becoming common. But night vision and thermal scopes are no longer just for sandbox use any more.

    Of course, everybody has to have a polymer handgun these days, but fundamentally, most gun technology is new materials, not new designs. Probably that's because the designs, though old, are actually very fit for purpose.

    Rob
     
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  9. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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  10. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    On a serious note, I just got my FOID a couple days ago. I am 42. I applied for it in November. I am currently researching firearms and intend to purchase one in the near future. I don't know how to categorize myself politically, but I suppose on the left side of center. I never thought I'd own a gun. I never cared if someone wanted to own a gun as long as it was responsibly. But with societal issues escalating, with riots in Chicago hitting VERY close to home, and with a surgery earlier in the summer at the peak of the riots leaving me basically unable to even stand up without help, much less defend myself and loved ones, I finally decided that it wouldn't be a bad idea to have one. Surprisingly, my GF got on board pretty quickly and she also never thought she'd ever be OK with it. Not sure why I am sharing, and I certainly don't have motives for doing so other than adding a data point to the discussion.

    I will probably be back asking for recommendations or opinions once I do some more research.
     
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  11. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Thanks for the feedback.

    1) Sounds like it's more of a localized demographics thing that isn't changing much then. Any personal thoughts I have on the matter would be more of a politically incorrect thread type of post, not really a product development type of thought.

    2) I agree that optics (both scopes for long distances and red dots / holographics for closer distances) and materials (namely increased use of plastics and occasionally composites instead of wood and metallurgical advancements) are definitely an advancement, but idk if I'd consider it a real advancement in firearms as a whole. Those I know who have been shooting for a long time (i.e. before red dots became popular in the mid 2000's) said that while modern optics makes closer up stuff easier and slightly faster, against a timer or on paper it's still a 10% difference at most and if you don't know what you're doing w/o it, adding it won't make you any better. Kind of like electronics on cars. Long range is even more so like that - the better scopes help you see further out and may give you better feedback in some scenarios where you can see the bullet flight, but you aren't going to suddenly shoot out to 1 mile just spent $5k on a scope. You still need to know proper setup and back end stuff, how to actually shoot, how to do calculations, etc.

    Anyways - back to the point - I take it you guys are saying most developments will probably come via new accessories, not the actual firearms?

    Very possible and I do believe that guns are probably a good balance between "good enough" to do what most people want in terms of defense (a tool that is powerful enough way to immediately appeal to the least common denominator amongst most sentient beings - use of force) but not so powerful that it's overly dangerous for society at large if the wrong guy gets it (ex: bomb, nuke, etc.). I get they're also easy enough to make with old tech that they can't truly be restricted as much as some politicians or people may want to do so unlike say a F-18 or whatever where the barrier to entry is very high. Yada yada.

    But when I look at most firearms designs / operations just from a "how can this be made better perspective", I see a lot of "WUTTT???? Why did they make it this way???" or "Why do they still think in this 2x4 little box - wouldn't it be better if it was done like XYZ now that it's not the 19th century anymore?" - granted, I'm not sure how much laws and restrictions have to do with the 2nd question so maybe gov is to blame for lack of innovation and development there. Anyways, I'm sure minor revisions, better care or maintenance, or other little improvements w/ regards to whatever mechanical stuff can be done (just like any other physical product in the world), but those to me seem like small band-aid tweaks that can only do so much. Or IDK, maybe it's like headphones and audio amps - we think we have better ideas, but when we actually try, it's often not really better so much as it is different from a practical perspective.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  12. roughroad

    roughroad formerly mephisto56, Rando

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    @fraggler PM me if you need any recommendations. I will say I'm a CZ guy r/t handguns.
     
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  13. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    @fraggler - on a different note, what I've been told, if we ignore the fact that nothing is in stock anywhere right now, assuming you're looking at things of competent design and manufacture (and legal), then just get your hand on as many handguns as possible, shoot them if you can, buy the one you like the most (and can afford if that's a factor). And obviously don't buy anything really niche or special purpose.
     
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  14. Bobcat

    Bobcat Friend

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    Oh, I did forget to mention the computer enabled devices for long range shooting (range finders, weather sensors & interfaces to smartphones and directly to scopes) that provide both better data and do the complex computations.

    Some of what you mention has to do with owner comfort. I have four Glocks but for what ever reason, I can shoot them well but not wonderfully. Since I’m older, I was brought up shooting revolvers and 1911’s, I’m probably more comfortable with them. My favorite carry gun is a Wilson Combat compact 1911.

    But I’m not entirely a dinosaur. A carry gun that gets a lot of time by me is a H&K VP9 SK. It easily outshoots my Glocks (for me) and I like it a lot and carry it often.

    I do have a SIG 320 with a Romeo 1 red dot on it but I haven’t used it enough (ammo shortage) to be comfortable carrying it.

    Rob
     
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  15. bobmysterious

    bobmysterious Facebook Friend

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    There have been a lot of advancements in bullet technology. Hollow point technology has made that type of round more effective on target. I believe the military is playing with a polymer cased round in place of brass. There have been some interesting handgun designs as well. Hudson took the 1911 format and relocated the the recoil spring into the dustcover to create a lower bore axis. Laugo has a new gun where only the sides of the slide reciprocate. Striker fired guns are a relatively new development (historically) as well, moving away from the traditional hammer fired mechanism. You can even go back to the introduction of the Glock “safe action” mechanism in the early 80’s as a significant rethinking of traditional firearms technology. There have been a good amount of changes due to competition shooting driving advancements too. The use of red dots on handguns began in USPSA open division. Compensators, while not new technology, are utilized on those guns too. Then there’s techniques like Akai Custom is doing such as “stroking” the gun to increase slide travel and aid in positive ejection. All this to say that there have been many incremental advancements, however, no (that I can think of) dramatic advancements like a total rethinking of the general shape of handgun designs or laser beams, etc.
     
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  16. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    This is true. Firearms are a "mature" technology, and with good reason - the basic requirement to put a deadly hole into game/enemy at relatively close range (usually < 100 yards) has not fundamentally changed since the middle ages. Reliability trumps every other requirement, thus you want simple to use/maintain overbuilt staid designs that go "bang" when your life depends upon it. You could almost say that innovation is for suckers and pretenders.
     
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  17. bobmysterious

    bobmysterious Facebook Friend

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    Firearms clearly don’t operate according to something like Moore’s law. However, I think there’s still plenty of room for innovation, it’s just going to be more subtle. Metallurgy has advanced a lot in recent years too. Carbon fiber barrels, new alloys, polymers, etc. Digital fire control systems would be a pretty dramatic change in the function of firearms if that ever becomes more widespread. In the end though, at least for now, they’re analog devices. But if history has shown us anything, it’s that advancements are always possible. Look at mechanical watches and turntables. They are continuing to advance, but at a similar rate to firearms. Have they changed much since their introduction? Well, yes and no. Maybe this mature technology doesn’t need to advance at a rapid rate to continue to evolve as with other mechanical devices.

    I think I accurately conveyed my thoughts. But I’m between clients right now and my head is fuzzy from a day full of psychotherapy. In the end, firearms rule. And we can all agree on that!
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  18. fastfwd

    fastfwd Friend

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    I guess I don't know anyone who bought their first firearm this year; every gun owner I know has been shooting since forever.
    The "normal demographic type" probably varies by location. I'm in the Bay Area, where the overall demographic is politically very liberal, so the median gun-owner skews liberal, too. You're more likely to see a Prius at the range here than a truck with a three-percenter sticker.
    There have been real improvements in each of the last four 50-year periods, so it's probably safe to say yes. There are new inventions being made all the time, even for boring old firearms like bolt-action rifles -- look at Ted Karagias's "Archimedes" bolt for a great example. Even without any John Browning type innovations, the sum of a lot of detail improvements might be large enough to make guns in 2070 look very different from guns today.
    Pedantic well-actually: Wood IS a composite (cellulose fibers in a lignin matrix).
    Ask people who are old enough to have presbyopia. Even at arm's length, iron sights are too close for me to focus on as easily and as quickly as I used to, but the RMR dot just floats out there at infinity, right on the target. For me personally, the difference is a lot more than 10%.
     
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  19. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    I have a different problem that makes conventional red dot sights unusable. I have such a severe astigmatism that even with my glasses on the red "dot" is a mass of tiny dots like a nebula of stars. I use prism sights instead of red dots.
     
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  20. Claud

    Claud Living the ORFAS dream

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    My idea of home defense is a shotgun. I have a 20 gauge Mossburg that is combat styled and a 12 gauge Remmington 870 pump that I alternate. My question is:
    Should I alternate these two guns every 4 months --unloading the relieved gun to allow its magazine to rest up and relax?

    By the way, Years ago, I read several articles on home defense and most of them recommended a 20 gauge shotgun for home defense .
     
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