Harman Curve Poll (Public)

Discussion in 'Blind Testing and Psychoacoustics' started by ChaChaRealSmooth, Nov 9, 2020.

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What do YOU think of the Harman Curve

  1. Strongly Disagree- The Harmon Curve sounds bad and it's potentially dangerous for good sound

    31.2%
  2. Somewhat Disagree - I like some things about it, but I'd rather not be the target

    39.7%
  3. Somewhat Agree- I like more things about it than not

    22.0%
  4. Strongly Agree - Now, this is how music should be heard!

    2.1%
  5. Fuck me in the ass with the IE 2017 treble boost! (Harmon Curve is for kids with hearing loss)

    5.0%
  1. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

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    Recently, I have been playing around with the AutoEQ software, creating EQ curves for my headphones. Included in the source of AutoEQ are various target curves, including Harman, diffuse field, and Oratory1990's Optimum HiFi, https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/compensation

    I think it would be very useful to have an SBAF target curve for use with AutoEQ. That way people could run the AutoEQ software against the SBAF curve for their particular headphone and generate the equalization values. The target curves are in CSV format, not sure of the exact specification but they appear to be 695 rows of two columns (frequency and amplitude). What would be involved in putting this together? Could the existing measurements be used?
     
  2. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    You could make EQ files from the SBAF MiniDSP EARS & flat-plate compensated results here:

    https://github.com/superbestaudiofriends/headphone-measurements-frequency-response

    The SBAF target is straight line = SBAF perceptive neutral, ie the 'target curve' is flat. So to make an EQ file, make a mirror image of the SBAF compensated measurement (subtract it from zero) and then depending on whether you're going parametric or fixed-band, smooth it/fiddle with it along the lines of jaakopasanen's HD800 example.
     
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  3. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    @purr1n Speaker designers and manufacturers rightfully laugh most of the Harman research out of the building. Most of it was used to build inoffensive sounding, low detail bullshit for home consumption. Bose with science. Stamped woofers, computer modeled waveguides that wreck treble timbre, bad class d amps, because their research said it didn’t matter.

    Other manufacturers like Genelec and Kii used it to try to defeat the laws of physics. Their speakers are all no detail shit and, like Harman, religious fundamentalists, libertarians, and the modern left, they have to employ an army of apologists to tell the skeptics that what they are doing actually works, dinosaurs lived thousands of years ago, distortion doesn’t matter, these people have feelings and because they have feelings they’re not mentally ill, money is a magical number on a screen or a piece of paper so it’s fine to hand it out for free, metal tweeters are okay etc.

    The HD 600 midrange tonally sounds like a speaker with a too high up crossover and the woofer breaking up. It’s still more even than half of JBL’s speakers with their black hole dips often sounding like a notch filter at the crossover. And more detailed than all the dead inside Revel speakers and sheened over, PA system sounding modern JBL compression drivers.

    Harman also owned AKG. The AKG headphones made under Harman don’t hold a candle to Sennheiser.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
  4. tomtrp

    tomtrp Rando

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    Toole’s research results are somewhat more reliable since flat on axis and great off axis performance speakers actually will sound good (but not necessarily individuals’ favourite) since it tries to reproduce the signal at best, and those research are done in NRC not Harman. Tooled later employed by Harman so he still has conflict of interest in terms of explaining and promoting his result in Harman’s interest. Olive’s research results on headphones are much more limited and problematic and done by Harman.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  5. tomtrp

    tomtrp Rando

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    We should accept that both Toole’s and Olive’s research results are meaningful findings but has limited generalizability, most of the results are concluded from a single experiment double blind test of a 268 people sample(and the sample has bad randomness and diversification), no repeated confirmation, not really science level correlation(but high) and precision and the statistical model has some flaws if viewed in pure statistical perspective.
    Their results are valuable and have some good explanation power but not complete, not so well tested, and not through a proper independent validating process to be accepted as truth or general rule like most of physical science results. They are loose science and both Toole and Olive have conflict of interest problems since they are employed by Harman. Just don’t put the same confidence in those research as the real hard core physical science.
    Harman and those measurement extremist only looks at the results and are so eager to put them as rule or standard while reluctant to face the incompleteness, limitations and generalizability. They highlight the findings from sample and downplay then flaws/limitations of the experiment.This is not a proper scientific attitude at all from my point of view.And it’s quite clear that Harman will benefit from the promotion and exaggeration of their own ‘’scientific’’ results as a rule maker. Bad things can happen when science is not independent and run by a profit driven company. I believe more reliable results will be available if proper research in this field can be done by independent academic entities like universities and reviewed, published by well-respected academic publications like nature.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Harman is too incompetent to make use of it. If anything, it's a pat on the back, confirmation, for those who subscribe to the stereotypical "Asian" consumer IEM tuning. I guess in that sense, the Harmon IEM target is valid.
     
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  7. CrankyRat

    CrankyRat Rando

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    Jesus, what a load of ... Your just fucking with us right? If not you have just revealed some sort of odd Synesthesia here concerning politics, music, and the world. But thank you, you are an active member but I will skip your silly stream of consciousness BS. Your ears must be shaped like waffle irons.
     
  8. luckybaer

    luckybaer Friend

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    Lurk moar. Lol...
    Take some time to get a feel for this place before you shit all over a long-time (dare I say “semi-beloved” ;-)) member, ffs.
     
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  9. Friday

    Friday Friend

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    The second coming of RobS?
     

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