Discussion in 'Blind Testing and Psychoacoustics' started by purr1n, Dec 8, 2019.
Riffing on your take, @purr1n
Suck it, nerds. Everyone adores distortion.
Amir is 10x worse than non English language gear reviews. Many sites and publications run full and consistent measurements over hundreds of products like sound and recording, prosound ixbt, audiofanzine, and a few polish sites. They also brutally take apart gear.
I was advised not to go for Schiit gear by some guys on ASR.
Luckily I didn't listen. I don't really care about measurements, my ears don't care for sure.
I also don't like clinical, analytical listening as it screws up my ears and worsens my tinnitus.
All I know is that my Schiit stack sounds frikkin' amazing and I'm glad I went that route, end game for me.
Measurements be damned if the sound isn't great. And who cares about the measurements if your gear sounds great anyway?
I get that measurements can be useful and some people go nuts over it; but in an AUDIOphile hobby, let your ears do the "talking", which can't in any way be objectified.
I think the obsession some have for SINAD is having a baleful effect on audio. Reducing the evaluation of whether something is good or bad to a single metric is not sensible and drives unfortunate behaviours both among designers and purchasers.
I am actually an advocate of measurement and consider that a suite of measurements can tell you quite a lot, as well as verifying manufacturer claims. However a number of things are rather important. You need to understand what you are measuring and have an agreed measurement protocol/standard if there is any intention for results to be repeatable and comparable. Measurement isn't just about buying a tool, I am not certain some of those measuring audio on some sites have any consistency in how equipment is measured, or follow standards, or perhaps more importantly understand principles such as uncertainty, repeatability or sensitivity of measured values to external influences and equipment duty. And perhaps just as importantly, measurements don't tell you much unless you know what they mean. Which of course is why people want to clutch onto something like SINAD as it is a simple "more/less = better/bad" concept that can be sold to anybody (and if they don't understand how limited it all is then fear not because manufacturers can manipulate the system and keep releasing a new DAC or headphone amp with a slightly better SINAD every year and watch people rush to buy).
And then there is the real elephant, measurement in itself doesn't tell you whether you like a particular sound and does not indicate "niceness". Nor will it tell you anything about build quality, manufacturer support, long term dependability, user interface etc. I think it's already beyond a joke with equipment like DACs, now we see the same concept being pushed for speakers and no doubt we'll see the same culture of certain manufacturers realising that if they optimise performance around certain metrics they'll fin lots of accolades and no doubt some sales. And the effect on audio will be anything but positive.
A lot of measurement types show contempt for subjective evaluation, but even as an advocate of objective evaluation using measurement I think obsessing over measurements that as so far beyond audible thresholds as to be all but meaningless is itself just a form of subjectivism.
Awesome! Should be on the SBAF t-shirts.
SINEAD - the Amir specific version:
I wanted to provide a counterpoint to my blind test where someone could not discern any difference between the Magni 3+ and Magni Heresy. I don't know how this is possible given the stark differences in headstage which heard; but yeah, I've run into people at meets who can't tell the difference between tubey tube amps and cheap solid state amps.
So I switched to Sennheiser HD-650 headphones. Both amplifiers provided incredible amount of drive, producing stellar response in the form of bass, detail and dynamic range. I tried with a few tracks to tell the two amps apart but I could not. In more careful ABX scenario where I can focus on specific segments I might do better. But in real-time testing, the two amps are the same. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise!
The Magni 3+ is also very competent amplifier and subjectively kept up with Heresy. But my question is why would you buy it? What are you going to do with that "story" of it being discrete? Print it on a sign and put it on your wall? Or sit back and enjoy music knowing that the Heresy provides absolute, provably transparent reproduction whereas the Magni 3+ is very close but may not be there.
@purr1n I have two sisters that could not tell the difference between the Klipsch HP-3 and the Sennheiser HD800 out of Bifrost MB into Sunrise III, so hearing that there are people who are unable to hear differences in headstage between the M3+ and Heresy does not surprise me. Heck they couldn't discern differences between the above two and EarPods!
I think it helps that the one sister who was able to discern differences plays guitar, and so knows more or less how to discern, or has some innate if unvoiced understanding of timbre etc. Speaking as someone who remembers a time when I thought both the Sony HP-V1 and Grado RS-1 sounded "normal" and not flavoured, I think it's not so much that differences are indiscernible as people simply haven't had the opportunity to learn how to listen.
It's been said many times: hearing is passive, but listening is a skill. Some training very likely required to identify gross differences, while more subtle ones need more time and thoughtful effort to discern.
Or, you know, maybe decent recordings.
Fools believe where science will at least question. There are those, similar to tone-deaf individuals, will never be able to differentiate audible characteristics. By self-selection, they usually never last long on the music production side. Those with self-awareness will not extrapolate their lack of ability to all others. The rest are narcissistic assholes.
I can’t hear a difference, although admittedly I didn’t do any kind of real test. Therefore nobody can hear a difference and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, even if they could tell the difference in a double-blind level matched test. You are still dumb if you buy the discrete Magni 3+ because it sounds the same as the Heresy to me ears.
@schiit should have priced the Heresy 99 cents more.
Skip to 3:10 if I messed up. It’s like Amir went to see QOTSA.
Who am I kidding, Amir wouldn’t go see QOTSA.
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