Merv's Politically Incorrect Audio Blog

Take the derision out of your tone and maybe your counterpoints will have merit. Maybe that's why you have problems being convincing with your "perfect" answers. At any rate, I have not seen enough to convince me I should try another approach.

From the beginning, with Trump's promise of a miracle vaccine in a short period, when vaccines had been continually developed over several years at minimum was enough to set me thinking. And as time went by more information became apparent, like the standard epidemiological practice of not introducing a vaccine in an area where the infection was widespread. The resistance to treatment with safe off label drugs, one of which, HCQ had been touted by Fauci himself in a study still on the NIH website, after the previous Sars virus, as very safe and promising but suddenly became unsafe and effectively blocked by by big pharm. Add my awareness that big pharm and the FDA were one and the same since the FDA's inception, I was skeptical of all of it from the beginning. Too many flags were raised. And it has just gotten worse since then.

Yep you have an uphill battle in convincing me to change my ways. I would be happy to be wrong, the easy simple solution would be much easier if only it could be believed.

 

In online discussions, there are always going to be a few audiences.

For sealioning, there's a pretence of openness to information and changing position by the other side. There's no point spending your time on that audience.

There's also a more neutral audience who might actually be searching for information or undecided. Calling out the sealioning tactic can be just as valuable as addressing the individual claims, for the neutral audience, and hopefully is less exhausting.

 

The fact is, it's a not a matter of believing: you can see how the COVID cases and mortality rate dropped in all countries that vaccinated the large majority of their citizens, and how many more unvaccinated people are hospitalised or in ICU in comparison to those who are vaccinated.

 

You've just clearly signaled with your vague skepticism and fall-back to conpriacy theory thinking that Beefy is in fact 100% right and no amount of evidence could possibly convince you of anything, so how is it worth anyone's time to supply you with readily available information that you've already pre-rejected?

 

Not in Israel. The vast majority of hosptalized covid infected are the vaccinated and they are dying. They were vaccinated against the original infection and the nature of that vaccine means they will always be infected against that one strain only.

Mutations have been created since the original infection. It's the nature of a virus and happens with every virus.
Most are weak and fail, some are stronger and survive and thrive. They are constantly evolving and this vaccine is so selective that it will not protect you. Natural immunity will.

 

That's just pretzel logic. Any evidence would just have to be substantial, not just a parroting of msm.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/these-unvaccinated-10-fuel-israel-s-covid-crisis-1.10251639

 

In other words you'll immediately dismiss anything that disagrees with you as "parroting of msm"

 

I think Israel's overall vaccination rate is around 90% of all adults, and I think around 60% of the hospitalizations are vaccinated. So 40% of the hospitalizations are unvaccinated. So let's just say there's 600 people vaccinated hospitalizations and 400 people unvaccinated hospitalizations, then even in a population of around 1 million (Israel is 9 million or so but just making the math simpler), it would be 600 people out of 900,000 vaccinated hospitalized vs 400 people out of 100,000 unvaccinated hospitalized right?

Anybody feel free to correct me on wrong statistics or if anything I said was wrong.

Edit: HHS popped up with some more accurate stats. I was just spitballing some numbers from what I remembered a month or two ago.

 

Also, hospitalized vaccinated die at lower rates than hospitalized unvaccinated.

Anyway, those of us who are vaxxed also get the benefit of 5G. Although the uncontrollable urge to donate all our life savings to the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is a bummer.

 

A bit more comprehensive study of Israel with charts!
https://swprs.org/israel-highest-infection-rate-in-the-world/

 

SWPRS = Swiss Policy Research. No transparency wrt associated individuals, no one wants their name to be attached to this. They've been found to cite anti-Semitic sources in their reporting on the Israel Lobby and have also been found to help spread Soviet propaganda. Good job, comrade.

They're also claiming that QAnon was an FBI initiative, which is unsurprising.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/swiss-policy-research/?amp

They have also claimed that COVID-19 is no more severe than regular influenza, which has been discredited. The original post was deleted:
https://archive.md/20200821224128/https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the-flu

 

Zombie Argument is another to add to Echo Chamber and FLICC. A few pages ago from this very thread:

As for current vaccines not protecting against variants: the latest data compiled by Public Health England continue to indicate the vaccines are >90% effective in preventing hospitalization and death from the Delta variant (see Table 1, p. 7):

https://assets.publishing.service.g...992/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_38.pdf

And pretty much everywhere else, because Delta is now the most widespread variant in most countries. Go to

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

And compare 'people fully vaccinated' against 'confirmed cases', noting what happens to the "4th wave" (after June) in countries with the highest vaccination rates (eg Portugal, Iceland, Spain, Denmark, Ireland, Chile, Italy, Norway, others in Europe). And btw, although they started early, Israel's vaccination total isn't very high.

 

So do let's stop. It's like arguing with Amir. Also, I notice that bilboda made no reply to Beefy's simple statement of professional qualification. But never mind. Whatever.

 

Oh, I could have but he has already expressed disinterest and his answer might be interesting. how does he explain his not accepting the information. What does he know that I don't know. How can he see thru this? The qualifications have the promise of an educated response and that would be most useful. Right now, it sits at I am qualified and that is all bullshit. It just does not teach anything nor add anything other than opinion to the discussion.

 

At this point, I simply don't feel the need to add anything further.

Other posters have very adequately explained why your interpretation of Israel's data is wrong, and why your sources are terribly suspect. Nothing I can contribute will help, and I simply am not going to invest any significant amount of time to try and change your mind. So here are my parting words, the best I can do quickly in my own Gish gallop.....

The vaccine was able to be developed so fast because of previous work done towards un-needed SARS vaccines. We had an enormous head start on the virus biology, and spike sequence.

mRNA vaccine technology holds such incredible promise because it allows rapid development, manufacturing and re-formulating versus old vaccine technologies.

Using lipid nanoparticles to deliver cargo to cells has been used for decades in other contexts.

Transfecting cells with mRNA to produce proteins and create immune responses has been used for decades in other contexts.

Finally combining lipid nanoparticles and mRNA technologies into a mass-market mRNA vaccine has been the dream for years, but there has never been the incentive to get it all together. The pandemic was finally sufficient incentive.

The mRNA vaccines are f'ing fantastic. Surely one of the best safety profiles of a new drug I've ever seen. Billions of doses administered, about 1 in 100000 suffering severe negative effects, far, far fewer dying. These vaccines have NOT killed thousands.

The efficacy profiles versus the original strain are beyond amazing, Vaccinated people have 90% reduction in infection, 99% reduction in death.

Efficacy profiles against delta are not as good, but still great. Vaccinated people have half the risk of infection. One tenth the risk of hospitalisation. Maybe one-fiftieth the risk of death.

That's all I've got. There is simply no excuse not to get vaccinated.

 

Thanks from an old guy who isn't up on all the lingo. I have very recent experience with this phenomena, but didn't know there was actually a word for it. My new thing learned for the day.

 

Thanks, I understand your points better. I see the VAERS data a little differently.
Over 100,000 voluntary responses . Every medical response is certified by VAERS with a follow up call to the medical professional reporting it.
Cause and effect is not established and would likely need an autopsy in the event of death and further investigation.
In April, the CDC stated they had not seen any cases of myocarditis, in May they stated they had not verified any cases, and most recently, they'd seen enough and are investigating the link.
I know you know myocardtis is not trivial. The damage done does not heal. It's a life long affliction and the life span is threatened.
All from vaccinating boys who had no apparent risk from covid. I believe the FDA came to the same conclusion, that injecting young people led to the situation that they are more likely more at risk from the vaccine than the disease during the discussion about the booster shots

No mRna vaccine has ever made it thru trials, We are in the midst of the trial right now. As far as efficacy, you still get infected and you still spread the disease. It is effective as therapy only and in my mind there are other therapeutics with proven safety records.
And it's efficacy is waning. Many cases of blood clots and reported death are after the second dose. How many more will there be after the third, the fourth and who knows how many more? Can't say, the trial is ongoing.

 

This is like elsewhere on the internet, this is going nowhere, don‘t feed (the debate) I would have said, alas there is no real debate.

 

Well of course you do.

That is simply not true. You cannot ignore the non-death risks of COVID. Myocarditis from COVID is FAR more severe than from the vaccine, and likely strikes the same people. Natural immunity would also hurt these people.

mRNA vaccines haven't even made it to stage 3 trials before. The trials are now complete, the treatment is approved, and full usage is allowed.

This is not true. Vaccination halves the risk of delta infection, meaning it halves the transmission risk at an absolute minimum. Reduction in each of long-term symptoms, hospitalisation and death are far higher than this. The vaccine works.

It is a prophylactic. It cuts your infection risk, hospitalisation risk, and death risk.

No, there aren't. Hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, zinc, vitamin D, invermectin.... none of these things have worked in clinical trials to reduce transmission, hospitalisation or death. You know what has worked in clinical trials to reduce transmission, hospitalisation or death? The mRNA vaccines.

That's the Astra Zeneca vaccine, which is not approved for use in the US.

Probably annual boosters, just like the flu. Coronaviruses have always been tricky for lasting immunity, as evidenced by coronaviruses causing about 20% of cases of the common cold.

****

See that? You got another 5 minutes out of me. And it will be water off a duck's back. I'm out.