Roon Discussion

Discussion in 'Computer Audiophile: Software, Configs, Tools' started by AllanMarcus, Jul 3, 2016.

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  1. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    Yup, just buy a nuc and install the OS yourself. It's super easy and my Nuc is equivalent to the $2500 model for about $600 (same specs).
     
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  2. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Why use a NUC vs. your regular desktop running Roon, which talks to a streamer (DigiOne Sig like I have, for example)?
     
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  3. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Roon is p. damn heavy on cpu ram and io, if you have a large library and use things like room correction plugin it can eat up a whole i7 nuc like it's candy.

    An i5 is enough for most people so long as it's the only thing running on it.

    So, running it on your pc comes with compromises depending on how you use it and the size of your library.
     
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  4. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    Fine print: Nucleus is fanless, garden-variety NUC has a fan. I run my Roon core on a fanless pre-assembled NUC-based from QuietPC (the one in the UK; the US QuietPC does not supply this): https://www.quietpc.com/sys-ultranuc-pro-7-fanless (Akasa Newton S7D Fanless NUC Chassis, NUC Core i5-7300U, NUC7I5DNHE, Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4 SODIMM, WD Green 120GB M.2 SATA SSD), cost ~$750 shipped from the UK to the US. I run Ubuntu Server 18.10 and install Roon Core on top, but it should be possible to run Roon's pre-packaged ROCK distro instead on this hardware.
     
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  5. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Roon runs perfectly fine on an old 2nd gen i5 with a 1.25 TB library at about 12% CPU utilization, when nothing else is going on. This is without any upsampling nonsense, but with some eq. As far as a fan goes, I don't care, my listening position is nowhere near the core computer.

    And I do think it is a bit odd since Roon from day one has been touting the preference of running the core on a computer separate from the device that may be acting as the transport to a dac. And using a PC as an all in one for both functions, for example, just seems to go against their own advice for several years now.
     
  6. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    It can eat up my i7 nuc for hours when I add a bunch of music.

    Its in the hallway so I don't care but it's definitely working it hard.

    YMMV.
     
  7. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    How much music are you adding? I am not sure how long my music took to index but it did not seem like hours. Who knows maybe it was, but I was doing other stuff on the computer at that time and performance of web browsing did not seem to suffer. It should not be a concern if you add your library once and then occasionally add a few more cds, right?
     
  8. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    When I added my library from scratch again I opted to use all the cores I had (i7). But now I have it down to 1 or 2, but no EQ or room correction thus far. I guess that makes me a low-end users but I do listen to music on the stereo while photo editing typically without any bogging down. 32GB of ram though and SSD might help :)
     
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  9. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    @Bloom You’ve had a few responses that I generally agree with. I also have an i3 NUC with Roon ROCK with 8GB RAM and 128 GB SSD installed, which I paid about $200 for used. Although I have also never heard the Nucleus (so I do reserve a final judgement on it), the prices do seem kinda crazy considering the alternatives. Dealer markup is almost certainly a thing here.

    Purportedly, the USB output from the Nucleus is very good. However, if you’re planning to go direct from the Nucleus USB into a DAC, I suspect a good endpoint or quality USB cleaner/converter in front of your DAC could achieve the same (or maybe even better) for less. Plus, you still need to add storage to it.

    I know you’re looking for someone with hands on experience, but I am curious though the reason behind your inquiry...could you elaborate on what kind of insight you’re looking for? Are you asking purely with sound quality intentions?

    The NUC for me was mainly so I could use it like an appliance, run it all the time, and basically never have to think about it. Roon ROCK boots from cold on my i3 NUC and is detected by Roon Remote in about 15 seconds. But I basically never turn it off because I think it only consumes like 10-15 watts at idle. Also, installing ROCK was more like peace of mind than anything else, since ROCK only runs the stuff you need, and nothing else. On my Nuc I have no mouse, no monitor, no wifi, no drivers for X and Y, no processes other than what it needs for running Roon. Just a power cord and an Ethernet cable, that’s it.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  10. econaut

    econaut Almost "Made"

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    Before I get the roon trial I wonder if a setup and use case like this is possible:

    Windows 10 -> roon -> WASAPI -> Dirac or Sonarworks -> USB -> DAC

    And then using an android smartphone / tablet as a remote control for that PC via WLAN. I don't need the multi room feature.

    Currently I use Foobar2000 this way, but roon looks interesting. I tried to find information on this, but the info is too confusing for me.
     
  11. JeffYoung

    JeffYoung Friend

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    I don't think so. Roon includes its own transport layer (RAAT) to deliver better performance, so I don't think it will work over WASAPI. That being said, you can drive Roon with an Android smartphone / tablet, and it does have a DSP engine in it, so perhaps you could use Windows 10 -> Roon -> USB -> DAC.
     
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  12. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Nah, if your endpoint is Windows you can output to wasapi or even system mixer.

    But try before you buy because it's touchy about buffer lengths and such, so it might not work consistently.

    The good thing about using its internal dsp is it runs core-side, which allows you run full room correction and PEQ on a relatively thin client like an rpi that might otherwise struggle.
     
  13. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Using Roon's DSP is a good idea. I have a friend who uses it to great effect on his speaker setup. I have not tried it yet but will.

    @econaut As for setups. Roon all in one device is not the best avenue for sound quality.

    Rules for best sound quality
    https://kb.roonlabs.com/Sound_Quality


    This next page is for people who want to run Roon's Core, Control, and Output components all in one computer. This is not how you get the best sound quality from Roon. For the final word on Sound Quality and Roon, please check out Sound Quality.

    https://kb.roonlabs.com/Sound_Quality_in_One_Computer
     
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  14. netforce

    netforce MOT: TSAV

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    Just got a Nucleus for the showroom and got a crash course today on setup which was super easy.

    We ordered it back a little while ago but was delayed a little as they moved production from Asia to USA most likely to get ahead of the trade war fun stuff. Added a second HDMI on the back I noticed.

    Been using the software on and off last few months between home and work and it is quite nice and much better than Jriver.

    Also asked about Amazon Music HD integration into Roon. The one I was talking to didn't confirm or deny they were working on it. Probably an NDA.
     
  15. crenca

    crenca Almost "Made"

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    Thanks for the update. I admit that I am now officially addicted to Roon - most (80% at least) of my listening is through it, and I would have withdraw's if Tidal/Qobuz went away. I am hoping that Amazon integration happens (then I could probably drop Tidal), but Roon rightly I think insists on access to metadata and the like - whereas partners instincts is to insist on their own rules, "ecosystem" UI style and the like. Apparently Roon has been unable to persuade the big boys (Spotify, etc.) to allow integration, and I suspect that they won't be able to convince Amazon to as well...but we shall see.
     
  16. netforce

    netforce MOT: TSAV

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    Spotify and Apple Music are the biggest players right now in streaming but it never seems like they are on any of the Android daps. Qobuz seemed to jump at the chance to be on Roon and seems like they are working quite hand in hand with Roon.

    I wonder how Amazon being the giant company they are, approaches it. If they are ready to work with Roon or they will be hands off with it.
     
  17. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    I wonder.

    On the one hand amazon tablets don't even have the Google app store. On the other hand The Dread Pirate Bezos wants his stuff to be everywhere.
     
  18. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    So for context, Qobuz has 0.2M total subscribers globally, of which 0.025M are in the US. Spotify has 110M global users, 26M in the US; Apple Music has 50M global users, 28M of which are in the US.

    It's pretty easy to see why Qobuz is going to be willing to do things that Spotify and Apple aren't -- those companies give zero shits about the niche market of hardcore audiophiles and Roon users, and spending significant resources on allowing a tight integration would totally fail to move their needle; whereas for Qobuz, capturing the audiophile/Roon market could cause double-digit percentage growth in their userbase.

    I'm going to go on a limb here and guess that Amazon is not looking at trying to get tens of thousands of users, and that they're focused squarely on the kind of audience that Spotify and Apple are.
     
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  19. crenca

    crenca Almost "Made"

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    This makes sense. However, the question then becomes why would Amazon bother with anything over >256kbs mp3./AAC? 16/44 even, let alone >16/44 (so called "Hi Res") has been a big whopping dud in the market. Only "audiophiles" care. Surely Amazon knows this - why would they chase the "Hi Res" great white whale when everyone before them has crashed on the rocks doing so?

    Speculatively, perhaps they think they can succeed to sell to the "average" musical consumer something they have up until now rejected? Nah, that can't be it. It must be about incremental markets, where they have been offered the 16/44\Hi Res from the lables for nothing, so they figure even if they can get a piece of the niche audiophile market it will be worth it for them. But that brings us back around to the complexities of the "audiophile" market, and how they want what they want - better than average software such as Roon, choice/flexibility, niche hardware integration, etc.
     
  20. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    I mean, I don't work at Amazon, so who knows. But a theory would be that if they're going to try to have any impact with their service vs. Spotify and Apple (and Google), they need some kind of special sauce. And since they're the company in the world that's the best at having tons of cloud storage available for super-cheap, it's cheaper for them to offer less-compressed files than it is for anyone else to do it, so why not leverage that advantage into something that you can market as "HD" sound?

    But maybe I'm wrong, and they actually are making a play for the audiophile market, and will work with Roon. It'd be cool if they did, even if I don't believe it'll happen.
     
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