SBAF DAC Talk II

I just got a Modi 3 hooked up after using a Modi MB for the last couple years. The difference in sound just about slaps you in the face through the Liquid Platinum. Modi 3 sounds less dark (better timbre IMO), smoother, softer, and more diffuse in terms of staging. @purr1n it does remind me of the AKjr, good call.

Im also finder that the upper registers sound smoother out of the 3. Ive always had a little bit of an issue with the upper mid-range and treble with the Modi MB and HE500s (this is why I decided to try the Modi 3). The overall tone is kind of dark, but the treble always sounded a little harsh and unrefined to me. It bothered me when I first got it but I kind of adjusted to it paired with the Lyr 1. When I got the LP I started having the same problem again. I blamed the LP at first, and its early to say, but I think switching to the Modi 3 may largely take care of it.

Does anyone else notice this with the Modi MB? Im trying to decide if Im going to have the same issue with the higher end Schiit MB dacs. Theres no question the Modi MB does some things a lot better, It has a lot going for it for sure, but theres just something about the way it handles the upper registers that I find kind of unrefined and fatiguing.

Am I going to feel the same way about Gungnir MB? Im kind of hoping it will be the best of both worlds.

 

How old is your Modi Multibit again? I have one produced last year after the reported firmware change that changed the sound a bit, just want to compare apples to apples.

Either way, I’ve always found my Modi Multibit to be a bit noisier sounding that the other Schiit DACs, which can show up a bit more prominently in the upper mids and highs - like a bit ragged/jagged sounding. I didn’t find I heard this at all with Gungnir Multibit A2. There’s maybe a bit of this with Gungnir Multibit A1, but not as severe as Modi Multibit.

 

This sounds exactly like what Im talking about. I bought the Modi MB mid 2016, so relatively early.

 

The other day I downloaded the Apple afclip tool, just for shits and giggles. Since this topic wants to stay, apparently, I thought I'd post a couple outputs from it:

Spoiler: Steely Dan - Black Friday

afclip : "/Volumes/Music/Steely Dan/A Decade of Steely Dan/1.02-Black Friday.flac" 2 ch, 44100 Hz, 'flac' (0x00000001) 0 bits/channel, 0 bytes/packet, 4608 frames/packet, 0 bytes/frame
CLIPPED SAMPLES:
SECONDS SAMPLE CHAN VALUE DECIBELS
106.971638 4717449.25 2 -1.064107 0.539706
106.971644 4717449.50 2 -1.004614 0.039980
135.488169 5975028.25 2 -1.094347 0.783105
135.488175 5975028.50 2 -1.195511 1.551071
135.488180 5975028.75 2 -1.126329 1.033304
185.756655 8191868.50 2 -1.001699 0.014748
185.758061 8191930.50 2 1.013023 0.112385
192.072262 8470386.75 2 -1.064778 0.545182
192.072619 8470402.50 2 -1.006129 0.053072
193.861015 8549270.75 2 -1.001334 0.011583
193.861071 8549273.25 2 -1.005009 0.043401

total clipped samples Left on-sample: 0 inter-sample: 0
total clipped samples Right on-sample: 0 inter-sample: 11

Spoiler: Black Keys - Howlin' for You

afclip : "/Volumes/Music/The Black Keys/Brothers/4-Howlin For You.flac" 2 ch, 44100 Hz, 'flac' (0x00000003) 0 bits/channel, 0 bytes/packet, 4096 frames/packet, 0 bytes/frame
CLIPPED SAMPLES:
SECONDS SAMPLE CHAN VALUE DECIBELS
7.340346 323709.25 2 1.019911 0.171248
7.340351 323709.50 2 1.026324 0.225689
7.340357 323709.75 2 1.009737 0.084161
7.352341 324238.25 2 1.010363 0.089552
7.352347 324238.50 2 1.006263 0.054232
8.798396 388009.25 2 1.004604 0.039896
9.169053 404355.25 2 1.001177 0.010216
9.169059 404355.50 2 1.004371 0.037885
9.668469 426379.50 2 1.000438 0.003805
11.798129 520297.50 2 1.000594 0.005159
12.815743 565174.25 2 1.004228 0.036644
12.873702 567730.25 2 -1.025218 0.216328
14.038039 619077.50 2 1.008690 0.075153
14.038044 619077.75 2 1.025512 0.218817
16.319331 719682.50 2 1.008091 0.069992
16.319337 719682.75 2 1.012684 0.109483
18.333090 808489.25 2 1.008292 0.071729
18.333095 808489.50 2 1.027227 0.233330
18.333101 808489.75 2 1.013990 0.120677
23.122126 1019685.75 2 -1.003365 0.029176
24.904161 1098273.50 2 1.001754 0.015222
25.391185 1119751.25 2 1.002429 0.021077
26.617239 1173820.25 2 1.089411 0.743831
26.617245 1173820.50 2 1.120227 0.986117
26.617251 1173820.75 2 1.033826 0.288946
26.820641 1182790.25 2 1.001847 0.016026
26.820646 1182790.50 2 1.000617 0.005355
28.540833 1258650.75 2 1.000152 0.001324
28.595380 1261056.25 2 1.012599 0.108746
28.595385 1261056.50 2 1.036264 0.309410
28.595391 1261056.75 2 1.016286 0.140322
28.883861 1273778.25 2 1.001129 0.009800
28.883866 1273778.50 2 1.009798 0.084687
34.290731 1512221.25 2 1.000661 0.005735
35.759099 1576976.25 2 1.017551 0.151120
35.759104 1576976.50 2 1.032146 0.274825
35.759110 1576976.75 2 1.012335 0.106483
39.069008 1722943.25 2 1.004862 0.042127
39.475091 1740851.50 2 1.015074 0.129953
40.860618 1801953.25 2 1.002416 0.020961
40.860624 1801953.50 2 1.083982 0.700439
40.860629 1801953.75 2 1.064821 0.545535
41.028951 1809376.75 2 -1.025252 0.216614
41.476927 1829132.50 2 -1.021457 0.184404
41.476933 1829132.75 2 -1.003433 0.029769
42.745658 1885083.50 2 1.004762 0.041263
45.060391 1987163.25 2 1.002391 0.020743
46.473662 2049488.50 2 1.003467 0.030064
46.884019 2067585.25 2 1.006390 0.055325
46.884025 2067585.50 2 1.012135 0.104767
46.884031 2067585.75 2 1.000240 0.002084
46.974546 2071577.50 2 -1.002100 0.018222
55.116400 2430633.25 2 1.036875 0.314530
55.116406 2430633.50 2 1.026735 0.229170
56.892806 2508972.75 2 1.003030 0.026281
59.783685 2636460.50 2 1.027658 0.236972
59.783690 2636460.75 2 1.028808 0.246688
60.499257 2668017.25 2 1.062888 0.529750
60.499263 2668017.50 2 1.037501 0.319774
61.558492 2714729.50 2 -1.054627 0.461977
61.558498 2714729.75 2 -1.065808 0.553578
61.561071 2714843.25 2 -1.019626 0.168819
61.561077 2714843.50 2 -1.019404 0.166929
62.351185 2749687.25 2 1.020054 0.172462
62.351190 2749687.50 2 1.027858 0.238662
62.351196 2749687.75 2 1.002706 0.023476
63.331372 2792913.50 2 1.051699 0.437832
63.331378 2792913.75 2 1.048367 0.410267
63.331548 2792921.25 2 1.002009 0.017435
63.331553 2792921.50 2 1.011810 0.101979
63.352596 2793849.50 2 1.008350 0.072228
65.164053 2873734.75 2 1.005727 0.049605
68.730539 3031016.75 2 1.002086 0.018101
70.551054 3111301.50 2 -1.003610 0.031299
71.507239 3153469.25 2 1.017988 0.154853
71.507245 3153469.50 2 1.018863 0.162317
72.021888 3176165.25 2 1.003392 0.029413
72.021893 3176165.50 2 1.004104 0.035572
74.252636 3274541.25 2 1.025401 0.217875
74.252642 3274541.50 2 1.077697 0.649937
74.252647 3274541.75 2 1.020282 0.174405
74.834405 3300197.25 2 1.021757 0.186957
74.834410 3300197.50 2 1.031882 0.272604
74.834416 3300197.75 2 1.013631 0.117599
77.337744 3410594.50 2 1.007919 0.068515
77.965658 3438285.50 2 1.084245 0.702551
77.965663 3438285.75 2 1.045460 0.386146
78.702863 3470796.25 2 1.052883 0.447601
78.702868 3470796.50 2 1.150945 1.221091
78.702874 3470796.75 2 1.114111 0.938567
80.507205 3550367.75 2 1.001792 0.015548
84.133141 3710271.50 2 1.089958 0.748198
84.133146 3710271.75 2 1.056118 0.474253
84.298747 3717574.75 2 1.004418 0.038288
84.302092 3717722.25 2 -1.068343 0.574212
84.302098 3717722.50 2 -1.110320 0.908962
84.302103 3717722.75 2 -1.032464 0.277502
87.002341 3836803.25 2 1.118804 0.975082
87.002347 3836803.50 2 1.150149 1.215085
87.002353 3836803.75 2 1.067368 0.566285
87.914796 3877042.50 2 1.008769 0.075831
87.914802 3877042.75 2 1.022973 0.197280
88.208033 3889974.25 2 1.097005 0.804173
88.208039 3889974.50 2 1.126809 1.037007
88.208044 3889974.75 2 1.059083 0.498602
90.203452 3977972.25 2 1.015803 0.136188
90.203458 3977972.50 2 1.027363 0.234479
91.811236 4048875.50 2 1.008436 0.072969
91.811241 4048875.75 2 1.009856 0.085187
91.899127 4052751.50 2 1.004059 0.035187
95.113872 4194521.75 2 -1.018567 0.159790
96.758010 4267028.25 2 1.024881 0.213469
99.199439 4374695.25 2 1.000080 0.000697
100.315096 4423895.75 2 1.023343 0.200421
102.231077 4508390.50 2 -1.009434 0.081562
102.231083 4508390.75 2 -1.017854 0.153713
102.582205 4523875.25 2 1.080368 0.671436
102.582211 4523875.50 2 1.115341 0.948157
102.582217 4523875.75 2 1.070182 0.589154
102.777494 4532487.50 2 1.053398 0.451850
102.777500 4532487.75 2 1.042920 0.365019
103.182778 4550360.50 2 1.001163 0.010098
103.930300 4583326.25 2 1.050595 0.428703
103.930306 4583326.50 2 1.056293 0.475687
105.746015 4663399.25 2 1.074961 0.627856
105.746020 4663399.50 2 1.055765 0.471344
107.541400 4742575.75 2 1.023128 0.198599
108.079382 4766300.75 2 -1.001067 0.009262
108.163713 4770019.75 2 1.007862 0.068023
109.529847 4830266.25 2 1.025211 0.216265
110.890437 4890268.25 2 1.011692 0.100969
111.778759 4929443.25 2 -1.025721 0.220588
113.504926 5005567.25 2 1.004010 0.034764
113.504932 5005567.50 2 1.002435 0.021127
114.872908 5065895.25 2 -1.004581 0.039697
114.872914 5065895.50 2 -1.007088 0.061346
114.972120 5070270.50 2 1.000039 0.000338
115.228124 5081560.25 2 1.008596 0.074348
115.228129 5081560.50 2 1.057816 0.488201
115.228135 5081560.75 2 1.038717 0.329945
116.678577 5145525.25 2 1.012874 0.111104
116.678583 5145525.50 2 1.024198 0.207677
120.217012 5301570.25 2 1.112557 0.926449
120.217018 5301570.50 2 1.154745 1.249723
120.217024 5301570.75 2 1.053019 0.448727
122.454178 5400229.25 2 1.051544 0.436551
122.454184 5400229.50 2 1.004589 0.039766
123.073095 5427523.50 2 1.086424 0.719988
123.073101 5427523.75 2 1.060703 0.511872
124.862120 5506419.50 2 -1.038770 0.330389
125.650346 5541180.25 2 1.018145 0.156195
125.650351 5541180.50 2 1.023219 0.199370
125.650357 5541180.75 2 1.006059 0.052472
127.431888 5619746.25 2 1.089947 0.748111
127.431893 5619746.50 2 1.120314 0.986798
127.431899 5619746.75 2 1.061702 0.520054
127.452619 5620660.50 2 1.009714 0.083965
127.452625 5620660.75 2 1.017671 0.152144
128.515221 5667521.25 2 -1.002712 0.023527
128.567579 5669830.25 2 1.002793 0.024229
128.567585 5669830.50 2 1.018069 0.155546
129.683475 5719041.25 2 1.008327 0.072029
131.048832 5779253.50 2 -1.006390 0.055323
132.091825 5825249.50 2 -1.028661 0.245450
132.873067 5859702.25 2 1.001844 0.016003
132.873073 5859702.50 2 1.002347 0.020366
133.183611 5873397.25 2 1.015018 0.129479
133.183617 5873397.50 2 1.018355 0.157987
133.579830 5890870.50 2 -1.000956 0.008297
133.596293 5891596.50 2 1.005397 0.046750
134.050414 5911623.25 2 1.003631 0.031483
135.075040 5956809.25 2 1.011880 0.102581
135.075045 5956809.50 2 1.015171 0.130783
135.394864 5970913.50 2 1.017182 0.147974
135.394870 5970913.75 2 1.052593 0.445211
136.348192 6012955.25 2 1.034449 0.294182
136.348197 6012955.50 2 1.074675 0.625540
136.348203 6012955.75 2 1.038233 0.325900
140.226627 6183994.25 2 1.012259 0.105831
140.226633 6183994.50 2 1.066497 0.559193
140.226638 6183994.75 2 1.002193 0.019025
142.030618 6263550.25 2 1.009736 0.084159
142.030624 6263550.50 2 1.091276 0.758693
142.030629 6263550.75 2 1.074393 0.623263
142.221264 6271957.75 2 -1.022658 0.194612
142.465947 6282748.25 2 1.062410 0.525845
142.465952 6282748.50 2 1.034079 0.291072
143.908923 6346383.50 2 -1.000568 0.004933
145.680437 6424507.25 2 1.005683 0.049220
145.680442 6424507.50 2 1.021364 0.183608
145.680448 6424507.75 2 1.010610 0.091672
145.734212 6426878.75 2 1.010862 0.093833
146.169484 6446074.25 2 -1.010576 0.091377
146.169490 6446074.50 2 -1.075459 0.631881
146.169495 6446074.75 2 -1.020380 0.175241
147.339722 6497681.75 2 1.014660 0.126414
149.157693 6577854.25 2 1.065486 0.550952
149.157698 6577854.50 2 1.059273 0.500161
149.783430 6605449.25 2 1.017015 0.146546
149.783435 6605449.50 2 1.037516 0.319898
149.783441 6605449.75 2 1.016848 0.145118
150.950850 6656932.50 2 1.087021 0.724762
150.950856 6656932.75 2 1.071411 0.599118
151.493294 6680854.25 2 -1.002389 0.020729
151.493299 6680854.50 2 -1.008783 0.075952
151.493305 6680854.75 2 -1.001124 0.009756
152.881094 6742056.25 2 -1.075212 0.629885
152.881100 6742056.50 2 -1.110645 0.911506
153.191672 6755752.75 2 1.017460 0.150351
153.230845 6757480.25 2 1.038476 0.327925
153.230850 6757480.50 2 1.049010 0.415590
153.230856 6757480.75 2 1.008386 0.072537
158.277783 6980050.25 2 1.002818 0.024441
158.277789 6980050.50 2 1.012071 0.104220
158.660198 6996914.75 2 1.020463 0.175942
160.076162 7059358.75 2 -1.000582 0.005053
161.980125 7143323.50 2 1.003676 0.031874
161.980130 7143323.75 2 1.002786 0.024164
164.734700 7264800.25 2 -1.013129 0.113298
166.085641 7324376.75 2 1.001686 0.014633
167.432228 7383761.25 2 1.022779 0.195639
167.432234 7383761.50 2 1.053472 0.452462
167.432239 7383761.75 2 1.040335 0.343468
169.089059 7456827.50 2 1.015558 0.134099
170.891797 7536328.25 2 1.052236 0.442262
170.891803 7536328.50 2 1.069934 0.587143
170.891808 7536328.75 2 1.035983 0.307049
171.973872 7584047.75 2 -1.000611 0.005304
171.973906 7584049.25 2 1.040410 0.344088
171.973912 7584049.50 2 1.133952 1.091895
171.973917 7584049.75 2 1.088323 0.735155
172.003707 7585363.50 2 1.025102 0.215345
172.003713 7585363.75 2 1.002499 0.021680
172.729960 7617391.25 2 1.010061 0.086954
172.782341 7619701.25 2 -1.004333 0.037558
173.306661 7642823.75 2 1.000100 0.000869
174.779802 7707789.25 2 1.024952 0.214068
174.779807 7707789.50 2 1.043276 0.367988
174.779813 7707789.75 2 1.025018 0.214630
175.292885 7730416.25 2 1.001917 0.016636
175.292891 7730416.50 2 1.025052 0.214916
175.292897 7730416.75 2 1.011257 0.097231
175.607228 7744278.75 2 -1.009643 0.083359
176.379507 7778336.25 2 -1.068196 0.573021
176.379512 7778336.50 2 -1.093507 0.776432
176.379518 7778336.75 2 -1.049909 0.423031
178.195130 7858405.25 2 -1.018631 0.160337
178.195136 7858405.50 2 -1.011486 0.099195
178.339830 7864786.50 2 -1.089450 0.744146
178.339836 7864786.75 2 -1.051811 0.438750
181.823452 8018414.25 2 1.031347 0.268099
181.823458 8018414.50 2 1.044353 0.376950
181.823464 8018414.75 2 1.013327 0.114989
182.006406 8026482.50 2 1.003198 0.027730
182.006412 8026482.75 2 1.001166 0.010121
182.252387 8037330.25 2 1.067008 0.563354
182.252392 8037330.50 2 1.127028 1.038697
182.252398 8037330.75 2 1.084535 0.704871
183.614598 8097403.75 2 1.002428 0.021066
184.244405 8125178.25 2 1.011107 0.095943
184.244410 8125178.50 2 1.036131 0.308295
185.703027 8189503.50 2 1.002010 0.017439
187.170539 8254220.75 2 1.024861 0.213302
187.214722 8256169.25 2 1.000687 0.005965
187.214728 8256169.50 2 1.028355 0.242861
187.214734 8256169.75 2 1.017975 0.154744
187.326179 8261084.50 2 -1.024643 0.211452
187.627772 8274384.75 2 1.001696 0.014718

total clipped samples Left on-sample: 0 inter-sample: 0
total clipped samples Right on-sample: 0 inter-sample: 268

Apparently it was used to great effect on the entire Brothers CD by The Black Keys.

(edit: spoiler font fixed-width)

edit #2: I meant to include the usage output for the tool:

Spoiler: afclip usage

./afclip
usage: afclip [-i][-c][-x][-c][-q] file(s)
for help: afclip [-h][--help]

afclip prints clipped samples in a sound file and the value, channel, sample number,
and time of each.
If there is clipping, afclip also writes a sound file containing the left channel of the original file and a right
channel which contains impulses corresponding to each clipped sample in the original.
If the left channel clipped, the impulse is +0.5, if the right channel clipped then the impulse is -0.5,
if multiple channels clipped, the impulse is +1.0,
Even if no digital samples are clipped, the analog waveform may clip in between samples when reconstructed.
Therefore afclip upsamples the input by 4 and checks those samples for clipping. This can be turned off with the -i option.

-h --help
Prints this help text.

-i
Turn OFF checking for inter-sample clipping.

-p
Turn OFF checking for runs of pinned samples By default a pinned sample (i.e. a sample equal to +/- 1.0)
is not reported as such unless there is more than one consecutive pinned sample in a channel.
-x
Don't write an output audio file.

-c
Suppress printing lines for consecutive clipped frames after the first clipped frame in a series.
This allows you to just see one line for each separate clipped series of samples.
Total clipped sample counts are not affected.

-q
Quiet mode. Don't print lines for clipped samples. This superceeds -c.

--version
prints the version number. This program is version 1.2

 

I also burned a few minutes with afclip and found some tracks with ~1200 inter-sample overs. But listening to them, while they are brickwalled nastiness, they don't piss me off nearly so much as the audible clipping in e.g. Truth from Devin Townsend's Infinity album that seems to have been introduced somewhere in the mixing/mastering/etc pipeline without necessarily resulting in maxed samples or inter-sample clipping.

Edit: FWIW, Townsend is known for often wanting a compressed "wall of sound" feel, which is a call that as the artist I'm happy to let him make, but this clipping is just W.T.F. Live recordings FTW.

 

Yeah intersamples overs and isolated clipped samples (like most lossy codecs will do) just don't mean really mean anything even in brickwalled recordings unless you're using something horrific like an ODAC, which sounds horrific anyway. You can digitally clip a piece of the drum kit to hell upon recording due to poor gain staging and overloading the ADC, clip it to hell some more digitally modifying it, sum it into the final mix (or the summed drum tracks) and have tons of ways to not make it come up red but that clipping is there FOREVER.

I mean you can clip everything you want , sum it together externally in analog, and have no digital clipping VISIBLE (not AUDIBLE) on the final mix. Or you can hit your clipped mix (or just drums) with a master bus compressor. Think of all the late 80s and 90s digital recorded or mixed records with audible digital clipping that don't come up red and have no "intersample overs" on the final master due to not being mastered hot? A ton of those never would've even had red on them when sent to the mastering engineer or plant due to being hit with the ubiquitous external analog master bus compressor even if they were mixed (and clipped) digitally. Many are way more clipped than limited "brickwalled" mixes masters, a ton of which which SOUND fine but LOOK bad.

SOUND good but LOOKS bad > LOOKS good but SOUNDS bad

 

For the sake of preliminary DAC comparisons, will TosLink from a MacBook or MacMini be acceptable for DACs that have poor usb implemeation (e.g., Lavry Black); or do I really need to buy a BNC-based S/PDIF source immediately?

 

From some people that I personally known locally who had done that, it didn't sound good. Just get an used Eitr and call it day.

 

I found Modi Multibit shouty compared to Gungnir Multibit for sure. The Gungnir Multibit is more extended and smoother in the treble at the same time.

 

I originally used Toslink out from a MBP when I got the Bifrost Multibit (Gen2, then), and even with that implementation USB was able to pull out more detail than the Toslink.

 

Interesting, so Im not the only one not loving the Modi MB treble. It seems to bother me more than most people, not sure if Im just sensitive to it or if its a pairing issue with HE500s. You guys described it as, "strident in the highs with certain female vocals or snare drums", to "shouty", to "a bit ragged/jagged sounding". I gotta say the last one is closest to what I hear, I find it to be somewhat ragged/jagged sounding most of the time. For me, the Modi MB treble at its best is simply unobjectionable. Compared to other DACS I've owned Ive had very few "wow this treble sounds great!" moments with it over the few years Ive owned it.

Im still not sure if Im just not a MB guy (the Modi is the only MB Ive owned), or if theres something specific about the Modi MB I don't like. Aside from the highs, I prefer the MB to the Modi 3 pretty much across the board, but the highs kind of kill it for me. I just find it much more fatiguing, which means I listen to it at a lower level and still find myself frequently reaching to turn down the volume. There is some grain present with the Modi 3, but for whatever reason it doesn't come across as objectionable to be like the MB does.

Since people are talking inputs, maybe I should mention Im using Toslink out of a MBP, and have been for years. When I compared toslink to USB years ago, I ALWAYS preferred toslink, so that's what Ive been using (I use coax SPDIF if its an option). I know USB has come a long way since then so maybe I should give it another shot?

Also, many of you may find this hard to believe, but I do hear differences between optical cables. Specifically between a monofilament acrylic cable (monoprice) and a stranded glass cable. I can't explain it, but I can't deny what I hear either.

 

Blue Jeans Cable had this to say about plastic vs. glass toslink:

 

I have seen that too. Im not necessarily saying one sounds better than the other, just that they didn't sound the same which I didn't expect being digital. The biggest thing I noticed was a difference in tone, the acrylic cable sounded warmer/bassier. Glass was leaner with more treble emphasis. It's not subtle either.

As far as durability, Im sure plastic is more durable, but Ive been using glass on a couple different systems for a couple years with no issue so I don't think its a big concern for desktop/home use.

One thing you definitely don't want to do is use a long (10'+) optical cable, especially if it's plastic. Like Blue Jeans says, the stuff is pretty lossy over distance, especially if you have lots of bends in the run, so attenuation can be a real issue. I know it should go 25'+ in theory (and in a strait line), but my understanding is that it can be much less in the real world, especially with high bit-rates.

For the record, I am not a crazy cable guy. Blue Jeans is my go-to and I use Monoprice if Im on a tight budget. I decided to try a glass toslink cable based on some things I read and was really surprised to hear a difference.

 

I have been using a Wireworld Supernova 7 optical cable for a 3rd connection into my DAC from my TV for quite awhile. I use it only for cases when I need HDMI ARC because I'm playing games from my PC. I will just say that it is not stiff at all, and it may be the most pliable of all the cables I have (all Wireworld). I have no concerns over the robustness of the cable. It's very well built which is the reason I bought it. I have gone through several plug-in and unplug cycles and my only concern is never letting the tip touch anything. Otherwise, the connector appears to have no wear and still "clicks" very tightly in place when I plug it in. This is the exact opposite of my experience with cheap optical cables. I have never bothered to check if it sounds good or not because it's not my preferred method of digital transmission, but I just wanted to share my delight for how well made this cable is.

 

I never compared to other optical cables, and never felt the need to, but when I used optical I liked my Lifatec glass cable: http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html.

 

This is what I use as well. No complaints. The connectors are fantastic, robust and tight fitting. One of the few places that sold glass toslink to mini toslink cables when I was looking too.

EDIT: Wow, they raised there prices over 30% since I bought mine a couple years ago