System Synergy - Special Sound

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by atomicbob, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    [​IMG]

    One of the most synergistic setups I've experienced yet.

    @rhythmdevils ZMF Pendant SE
    @yotacowboy Sennheiser HD800S
    @Joshvar Schiit Bifrost 2

    The warm/dark Bifrost 2 counterbalances the Pendant's neutral-ish tone and fast transients, while the HD800S takes full advantage of the perfect marriage downstream, delivering oodles of resolution, speed and impact. Very hard to put the headphones down.
     
  2. WoodyLuvr

    WoodyLuvr Friend

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    Oh, the synergy... upon seeing (reading about) @atomicbob's Goldpoint SA2 Sepped Attenuator a seed was planted and I now have this newest addition to my chain: SACThailand Silk Classic TVA Passive Preamp... that is not TVA as in Time Variance Authority but rather Transformer Volume Attenuator. Thank you @atomicbob for sharing your setup and being such a dandy enabler ;)... regardless of all the ole' balls & chains (wives) around the world that may curse you!

    IMG_4159.JPG
     
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  3. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    DSC_1112_small.jpg

    DSC_1112_small_cropped.jpg

    DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3
    HP: Sennheiser / JAR HD800-JAR (commonly called JAR800)

    Both Studio B and Vali3 are using GE JAN 5670W driver tubes
    Studio B has Elrog 300B output tubes and has custom output transformers
    Vali3 has Coherence™ current-feedback discreet Class AB bipolar output

    Listening levels between 75 and 90 dB SPL

    The following differences are slight to moderate.
    Without direct A/B comparison one might not be able to remember the differences noted.

    Studio B has higher overall technical performance such as
    Cymbals have greater definition between hits and on the shimmer
    Bass has a bit more impact on plucked low notes
    Kick has more impact and definition
    Piano sounds more liquid in the higher octaves

    Vali3 maintains a great timbral quality over the entire spectrum similar to the Studio B.

    Both exhibit that very desirable trait of magic midrange
    Both amps have such engaging, immersive sound as to invite listening at levels higher than normal, so be careful.
    Once settled in, either can keep my attention on enjoying music and not fussing about equipment.

    Studio B setup above cost 73x as much as the Vali3

    Vali3 is an incredible design accomplishment.
     
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  4. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    A Beguiling System

    01 20240505 modius Cyan 2 vali 3 HD800S.jpg
    A very intriguing system small footprint, not terribly expensive, yet very high level of auditory zen
    Components to be discussed are
    DAC: Cyan 2
    Amp: Vali 3 + GE JAN 5670w tube
    HP: HD800S and HD800-JAR

    Many enjoyable listening hours have been logged with this system as enumerated. It is hard to describe the satisfaction achieving such immersion without spending $$$$$ nor occupying huge amount of space. Low overall distortion, no fatigue factor, simple enjoyment.

    02 20240505 RDL SF-ND2 - Cyan2 - Vali3 - HD800.png
    The system embodiment avoids USB in favor of Dante. All music files are resampled on-the-fly to 88 KHz using SOX converter in Jriver MC and output via Dante VSC to ethernet, which is inherently galvanically isolated. Cyan 2 has lower jitter with Dante to spdif than ASIO USB as will be shown later. Though not a huge difference, it is significant.

    The following measurements are all SYSTEM electrical measurements of Cyan 2 + Vali 3 with GE JAN 5670w tube.
    03 20240417 Cyan2+Vali3 Distortion FFT 88K Dante+spdif SE 300R - annotated.png
    Note AC main noise of the system is far below threshold of perception for common dynamic headphones. Also note the descending harmonic distortions common to excellent sounding system. Vali 3 dominates this distortion suite measurement. Cyan 2 distortion are much lower.

    04 20240428 Cyan2+Vali3 dynamic range FFT 88K Dante+spdif SE 300R v2.png
    System dynamic range is well over 110 dB. Considering measurement is dominated by AC Mains noise, practical dynamic range, considering the ISO Contours of equal loudness, is much greater. This will contribute to a very clean sounding experience or blackground.

    05 20240417 Cyan2+Vali3 multitone -20dBu FFT 48K spdif SE 300R 8-24 - annotated.png
    There are two distinct noise floors in the multitone test. Vali 3 is responsible for the higher level which Cyan 2 sets the baseline for the absolute floor. Considering the dominant Vali 3 noise floor is 90 80 dB below the multitone level this will result in a very clean rendering of complex waveforms. Another reason for the apparent exceptionally clean sound experienced with this system.

    06 20240417 Cyan2+Vali3 sine -70dBFS 100Hz FFT 44K spdif SE 300R.png
    -70 dBFS sinusoid system response Again, exceptionally clean for a system level measurement.

    07 20240417 Cyan2+Vali3 sqr -70dBFS 100Hz FFT 44K spdif SE 300R.png
    -70 dBFS square wave system response Nearly perfect square wave.

    08 20240505 BOM Cyan 2 vali3 HD800 + Dante DDS.png
    While not really a budget system, for a little over 3K this system delivers great enjoyment, low distortion, low fatigue for hours long listening sessions. Jupiter Audio Research mods will add 2K to the price but is well worth it. Dispensing with USB once and for all with Dante is a $600 proposition, but again, to me, well worth it. And this DDC will work for any DAC with AES, spdif or optical input. Once acquired one can dispense with USB altogether.

    09 20240417 Cyan2 Inferred Jitter SE - ASIO 88KHz.png
    Cyan 2 ASIO USB jitter is really good.

    10 20240418 Cyan2 Inferred Jitter Bal - Dante spdif 88KHz 8-16.png
    But Cyan 2 Dante to spdif at 88 KHz is nearly perfect.

    Amps such as the Mjolnir 3 and EC Studio B will definitely showcase the capabilities of Holo Audio Cyan 2, however there is a very beguiling sound with the Vali 3 and GE JAN 5670w tube.

    This specific system is likely to remain a staple in my lab collection.

    *editted for typo*
     
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    Last edited: May 10, 2024
  5. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    I am obsessing about my main system but from time to time I fall in love with much simpeler, and less expensive setups that punch way bove their price tag, and perform better than I would expect from any of the components.
    Here is Hifiberry Digi+ Pro RCA SPIDIF -> Mobius E XLR->Monolith THX AAA-> HE500 (open grill, Focus A pads). I think that the main suspect of why this setup is performing so well is Mobius E, and upgraded PSU for Monolith. The stock Monolith PSU can ruin the sound of any system but cheap upgrade to Meanwell 24V 2 A can fix it.
    But Mobius E is in my view the star here. I was testing it against RME ADI-2 Pro in the iFi ICan Pro setup and I think that if it was not for amazing DSP features of RME I would probably sell it and just buy another Mobius E.

    HE 500 in this setup sound more resolving and open than with any amp or DAC I tried before. It is bit brighter than with LGX, but ta the same time sounds more neutral. The depth of soundstage, that in my view is a weak point of HE500 did not improve but there is a clear space for every instrument that enhances macro resolution.
    I am not going to touch this setup as long as nothing fails.
    Here is, unfortunatelly, rather crappy picture:

    upload_2024-5-24_14-9-16.jpeg
     
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  6. rfernand

    rfernand Almost "Made"

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    Here is “System/1”, my main rig. There are two magic headphone combos I’d like to share. Thou I did not set out to build it that way, it ended up being a full Schiit rig. And I’m cool with that.

    IMG_0441.jpeg


    Common components:
    - Urd as USB and CD transport
    - Yggdrasil OG A2 - so we have unison-to-unison at play here

    Tube magic
    - Freya+ in diff mode (no tube output) as preamp
    - Schiit Folkvangr, stock tubes
    - Grado RS1x

    The RS1x is the Grado GOAT for me (which is hard to say as I adore my GS1000e for classical music). You can understandably lament some changes away from the John Grado sound, but this beast is incredibly resolving and the highs are competently tamed. Check our purr1n’s Grado guide, he has many other observations and opinions on pads (I like stock). Some of us Folkvangr owners have said that the amp seems to have been developed for Grados - without extra gain or the impedance multiplier, the pure tubeless of it all seems to drive everything I’ve thrown at it (80e, 325x, 500e, 1000e, RS1x) with gusto. The RS1x, being a superb animal, benefits the most from this amp. So why preamp? This was an accidental discovery. I use Freya+ to distribute the Yggdrasil SE outputs to the amps for the speakers plus I like the tubes for the speakers. Since I’m lazy it just occurred to me to pass things to the Folkvangr and use the remote for volume convenience. One day I forgot to put it in passive and left it at diff buff, and oh surprise, the Folkvangr fun remained but it gained refinement. I don’t understand why the output stage of the preamp would be noticeable through all the tubery. This combo is tube-fun, slam-happy, and very realistic. Somehow there’s less “smokey room” feel than you might think. I’m sure it measures poorly.

    SS magic

    - Dan Clark Audio Stealth
    - Schiit Mjolnir 3

    Mjolnir is being fed fully balanced out of Yggdrasil. While I feel I leave little bit of spark on the table (compared to speaker output), this dad/anmp and the Stealth are simply an excellent match. I’ve no idea what @schiit used to test, but I’d bet a bottle of wine the Stealth was around. The absolute best results come after 15 mins or so of warmup time for the amp, in SE mode, with no feedback, and base gain. The stealth’s magic trick of giving you a very natural sound with a wider-than-expected soundstage is very competently filled by MJ3, by virtue of its soundstage being more wide than deep. Detail, detail, detail. It really sounds alive.

    Tube or SS? Why not both? :)

    Bonus: Pretty much any planar I tried (LCD-X, LCD-X 2021, Aeon Noire) sings with MJ3, thou with different combos of PP/SE or FB/NF modes.
     
  7. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    IMG_3215_cropped_adj.jpg

    Well over 400 listening hours on this system. Destined to be a classic, not FotM.
    Next to these on the bench are EC Studio B and both a Spring 2 and 3. The latter offer more refinement, greater technicalities. Once settled into a listening session with the Holo Cyan 2, Vali 3 + GE JAN5670w tube and either HD800-JAR or ETA Ada, I don't feel compelled to switch to the big guns. Long fatigue free enjoyable listening sessions with focus on music in the library.

    Enjoyment has been a big factor in coping with daily stresses from so many sources in life at the moment. Very grateful to have such wonderful systems available in my lab. This particular setup is a keeper.
     
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  8. batriq

    batriq Probably has made you smarter

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    I have found great synergy in this new setup from existing components:

    IMG_5956.jpeg

    Components:
    - Yggdrasil A2 with Unison
    - Cinemag 15k:15k balanced to SE converter that I built
    - Silver RCA wires I built
    - Bottlehead SEX 2.1 I built and fully upgraded. Including caps, resistors, and rectifier diodes. Latest upgrade is Teflon coupling caps.
    - Voltage divider (small silver cylinder)
    - HD600 unmodded

    Lots of nuance and power in the system and as @atomicbob says, hours of fatigue free listening
     
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  9. kukur9

    kukur9 Facebook Friend

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    Hi, @atomicbob

    I've messaged you before a long time ago about Dante and I passed on it back then because I just find setting up JRiver MC...difficult. And I would want to test it before buying the Dante hardware. But I never forgot your advice and here we are again as I'm still curious (and wanting to get away from USB).

    I surprised myself by getting it to read my NAS, so finally testing it and appreciating the old-skool database style spreadsheet interface. Could you point me to the upsampling plug in you're using w/ Dante, please?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2024
  10. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    I am using the SoX converter built into JRiver MC.

    Here is a comparison of SoX which is particularly clean to NHC which is, um, well, not so good:
    20240803 infinite wave SRC comparison NHC vs SoX.png

    *edit* added SRC conversion quality comparison
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2024
  11. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    I think I will try to replicate this lovely setup atombob, you convinced me!
    Are you still using an attenuator somewhere in the chain as I saw in previous setups?
     
  12. kukur9

    kukur9 Facebook Friend

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    I think I'm going to try this "all the way" (read: spend the money) but I am really dubious about JRiver. There's enough hate on Reddit, and enough complexity and oddball behavior w/ the Mac version to turn me off. Would have to try Audirvana for upsampling, although I think JPlay sounds better without upsampling (and is much cheaper) for me. I am of the 99.9% of my music is Red Book so unless I have all the tools, no need to chase that DSD/HQPlayer dream.
     
  13. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Yes, I have grown accustomed to having a consistent feel for both the knob and position for volume. Setting all amps for unity gain translates to the same volume setting across systems to achieve a consistent sound level.

    Here is a picture showing the larger setup on the lab bench:
    IMG_3215_small_adj.jpg

    It should be noted I am using JRiver MC 22 on some PCs and 24 on others. I have not felt the urge to constantly upgrade. Latest version probably has many more features but potential for bloat is also greater.
     
  14. felyx888

    felyx888 New

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    Yeah, I still use an attenuator to get that consistent feel for volume control. Makes a big difference for me! And kukur9, I feel you on JRiver - it can be a bit of a beast. But Audirvana's a great alternative, and JPlay's a more affordable option. Since most of your music is Red Book, you might not need all the fancy upsampling features anyway.
     

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