Verum: Doing The Right Thing

Discussion in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' started by Ryanr1987, Jul 17, 2020.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    TBH, Verum company behavior toward members, specifically you, and the general weird vibe of one too many "delivery" questions, was a huge contributor and made the decision just that much easier. I don't envy Audio Science Review for being in the position of having to harbor a racist (or someone clearly exhibits such behaviors under the pretense of comedy) because they have no other thing to go on. (Not that it would have changed our minds anyway).

    Again, a stern public warning for bad company behavior should have been issued, regardless of dog ate my homework excuses. The problem is taking it too far. I've been at this for 10-years. I can list a bunch of companies, including some that I have dealt with personally, that when viewed from a certain point of view could have or should have been censured including Schiit, HeadAmp, Eddie Current, Mr. Speakers, Audeze, Tom Christiansen Audio, HiFiMan, etc. LOL, in the case of HiFiMan, they actually obtained access to a user account with high access on Changstar to spy on our private conversations (this was actually confirmed when we found a USA account suddenly coming from IPs in China).

    It's dangerous to be judge, jury, and executioner. I would prefer the Judge Dredd approach be used sparingly when it comes to vendors because everyone is going to have a story.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  2. netforce

    netforce MOT: TSAV

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    Looks like asr banned Garu, ironically for the screenshot of the email sent early June blaming shipping delays on blm and black people. Guess the admin didn't see it in the original reddit post or in my long post that got linked into their thread.

    I have been reflecting a little. I think back to my teen years where I was a dumb edgy troll on 4chan saying racist shit in front of my sister for a reaction. I cringe thinking back to those days and wish I could undo all that dumb shit I said.

    I would like to think that I have changed, that I have become a better person over the years. Call out racism when I can. I'm glad seeing how radicalized some people can get so fast nowadays, I never went deeper into the rabbit hole than where I did.

    With Garu now banned here, head-fi, asr, being downvoted to oblivion on reddit, banned in major audio discords. I would say Garu has been effectively deplatformed. No idea where he could go now in effort to grow his brand.

    He had many chances to change. He had many chances to stop. He kept pushing it and this is his where he has ended up.
     
  3. Claritas

    Claritas Friend

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    Please know that I'm making general statements. I'm not now saying what I think about the case of Verum Audio.

    1. One ought to have the courage to stand up for oneself and to protect others, especially those who are weak ("the little guy").

    2. If one should err in a matter of consequence, the proper remedy is to show awareness that one has erred.

    For example: Last weekend, I dined with a family in Mummy's building. (They had adored Mummy because she was so thoughtful.) At some point, we were discussing American politics. The family is pro-Trump, and the lady of the house said, "He has a lot in pocket." She meant she considers him very capable. In reponse, I quipped, "His mind is in his pocket." I immediately realized that, in the presence of young people—six of their eight children—I hadn't shown the respect due to the office. So I continued, "I shouldn't have said that. Sorry. One does not talk that way about the president."

    3. Forgiveness is an important act that we, too, benefit from. As, for example, one of the greatest prophets taught, "For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will forgive you also your offences. But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences" (Matt. 6:14–15). So do not bear grudges. But rather, when you feel yourself able, try with intention to forgive.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  4. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I believe that as much as the intern excuse.
     
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  5. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    Where I live we have Ukrainians, Russians etc. Slavs and it is Eastern Europe.
    People here are not sensitive to racism, skin color and the like. People here do not understand it can hurt others to make fun of this. Really.
    Very unlike how it is in Western Europe or US.
    In slavic communes people care more about status, way of living and perhaps religion. I am pretty sure what Garuspik has said he meant and is honest. Whether or not it saves him in the eyes of SBAF is another thing.
     
  6. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    It doesn't matter where a person comes from. In today's seamless world, as far as business goes, a professional or business owner has to be sensitive about cultural differences and has to be extra careful while talking to someone who is from a different culture or background and if they can't then its better to keep their business domestic.
     
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  7. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    Verum: Beating the dead horse
     
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  8. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Agree with most of your post but
    disliked for formula-thinking, one should speak as one finds. What I would agree with, is tact according to present company. If I have a friendship that transcends politics (and why should friendships not transcend politics) then, unless it is what we do and accept , I don't go their to argue their politics.

    By all means, respect the office. But the guy in the chair is human. 15 volumes of the great Hindu epic Mahabharat lead to destruction and warfare because people made that mistake. A few thousand years later, we still haven't learned the lesson.

    ..all, IMHO, of course. I expect yours differs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  9. Claritas

    Claritas Friend

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    Indeed. But there were children present. Either you missed that part, or you're indifferent to it.

    I'm glad I'm not a parent, because they have to walk a very fine line: simultaneously teaching their children respect for the office and contempt for the person.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  10. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Very much not indifferent to it. I can imagine that one might not want to refer to someone's mind being in some part of their anatomy other than their brain in front of very young kids. Otherwise, I work on the basis that children are often much more intelligent, much more informed, and much more understanding than adults sometimes think.

    In short, with limited restrictions, I treat children as other human beings.

    During my short attempt at playing music, I was mostly playing with youngsters. My "boss" percussionist was 11 when I was 40. One thing that made me so happy, and that I continue to value, was that they never treated me as a grown up.

    (whoa! that 11-yr-old is a doc now. And still playing music too. And still a friend)

    Anyway, life has all kinds of difficulties, including, to-topic, people on audio forums that turn out to be assholes. And I don't think we are very far apart in how we think about that one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  11. wadec22

    wadec22 Facebook Friend

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    Agreed. Looking forward to seeing this one locked and sinking into the abyss.
     
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  12. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    For now, I am thinking of two suggestions for this matter before moving forward.

    1. We need to add some "color-highlighted" description of Garu's problem in the OP post of the current Verum-1 thread. We may also have to lock the thread. This is to make clear SBAF is not supporting Verum audio any more other than providing objective data points already made. In particular earlier posts before @Gaspasser getting harassed are written very favorably toward Garu. Assuming not every internet surfer reads the full thread from start to end, OP post should clearly point out ethical issues of the manufacturer. I also suggest to lock the thread because the current forum system automatically bump the thread with any new posts (probably from new randos), which indirectly help Garu's business in any way.

    2. Forgiving may be an option AFTER we all are convinced by his CONTINUOUS attitude to reflect himself in better direction. I don't think without that it makes any sense (especially for now). I'd like to see we all rethink about this issue three quarters or more later. Very doubting that he would eventually self-reflect though. Only time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  13. Gaspasser

    Gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    I don’t know if we should be that extreme @Vtory.

    I am puzzled by all of @Claritas dislikes in the thread, however, I think his above post has a point that maybe we should try to help Verum do better as a company. I like the opposite approach to “crushing one’s enemies”. After thinking about Marv’s points and others, I feel there should be a mechanism where Verum can have a representative participating here at some point in the future. I was on the receiving end of the company’s nonsense and I’m over it all. I can forgive Verum (the company) if they are willing to stop acting like assholes and be more culturally aware of their customers. The only way they can do this is by being provided an opportunity to demonstrate they are acting differently now.
    The only thing I think SBAF should have done differently is to clearly warn Verum about how to better deal with forum member customers. Although, maybe it isn’t really fair to expect that from SBAF. Although, why even have MOT tags then? That being said, I appreciate your apology Marv, I understand the difficulty of your position in all of this.

    From a business perspective, Verum needs to do better with a number of issues including shippping, transparency about manufacturing delays AND controlling their public image on forums and Discord.

    I think SBAF (among all others) is a forum where Verum could rehabilitate their image and show they actually are a legitimate international business.

    Maybe we should think about how best to eventually provide Verum that chance.
     
  14. Ardacer

    Ardacer Almost "Made"

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    Guess the verum about him got out.
    Real interesting marketing choices that guy makes. Maybe took the advice from wolf of wall street to heart.

    I live in a slavic country and the stuff he wrote is mild at best considering the shit you can hear here. Seriously. Doubt that he's actually a true hateful racist, it's not beyond reason that he perhaps never even met a poc at all in his life.
    Wishing cancer on someone is also something people say here. Very stupid. Hope he never understands the meaning of those words first hand.

    Could be that he developed a serious mental or neurological issue if he changed over the years too.

    Racism is not a big deal here, as we have no poc anyway, so it's really odd that he'd be so fixated on that. Mentioned whores, etc... normaltalk for these areas...
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  15. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    In NL cursing is very explicit and often riddled with diseases you do not want to think about. Otherwise genitals and other shameful things are mentioned. Curse loud enough and you actually sound intimidating.

    I am used to people cursing. Additionally having worked with people of all kinds of nationalities and roots you pick up new words to curse with. If you want to sound cool curse in French.

    In the kitchen (my previous job) and now in food logistics I keep it short "Aya!" because Chinese gets the job done too.

    However, when you have a serious business and you need to present yourself well, do not curse or keep it very subtle. Instead of "shit, damn, mother#######" you can say "right" or "I see." The upside of dealing with all kinds of managers through the years is that you pick up on their tricks that they use to hide their disapproval or disgust. There is an art to it.

    The dude behind Verum Audio has a long way to go if he wants to succeed with his business.
     
  16. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    That mostly is it. I was born in USSR and grew up together with my country regaining independence. Only in the last 5 or so years there has been an influx of non-white people mostly due to intl. students coming to our kickass yet cheap universities. And even then it's mostly middle eastern folks. True afros and far-easterners still are rare.

    About six years ago I was a part of a meet and greet committee for some Israeli startup people and one of them mentioned that he hasn't seen a country so white. I was kinda surprised at that time as I can tell subtle features of most white people and figure out their roots. Some look like typical Poles, I for one am a typical northerner with ginger-blonde hair, fair skin and blue/gray eyes. Heck, on Scandinavian flights the attendants always complement my English that it has no Swedish accent... So, for a long time I thought of my country as sort of a melting pot for many peoples who have left their genetic legacy through warfare in the olden times and through forced mass movement of workers during the Soviet period. I mean, it is a pot, but it's all white!

    Then I went to Frankfurt for the first time. The Hauptbahnhof (main train station) there looked to me like a fucken starport from some sci-fi flick. I'd say it was the biggest eye opener for me and further travels opened my eyes more to different people(s). Most people from the Eastern bloc countries can sound racist mostly because they're tone deaf to the issue. They don't actually mean evil, it's just that their stereotypes are mostly formed by cinema of varying quality.

    As for cursing... funnily enough in my native tongue there are no curse words apart from calling someone a pig or some kind of a genital. To really curse we use Russian, as it's more fit for the purpose or we get creative. Our people can feel rough and I blame the very much alive memory of wars for that. We're survivors of class cleansing where the intelligent and successful were purged en masse. Mostly by denunciation by their compatriots because they were scared or jealous. My GF's great granny was sent off in place of her rich neighbor because he paid off the squad and they just needed to fill their head quota. My great granny was first sent to a prison where through mock firing squad they tried to get info about her partisan brother. She didn't crack and was sent to Siberia. The brother's partisan cell was uncovered by an inside mole and he ended up suicide bombing himself and a "destroyer" squad, as they were called at that time. Both my and my GF's great grans survived Siberia and came back. Needless to say with the baggage we're carrying we can afford to skip leg day from time to time. This shit heals, but it's still early.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  17. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Quebec is great. The profane is everyday (c'est fucké!) so the sacred has become profane (tabarnak!):

    https://www.je-parle-quebecois.com/lexique/definition/tabarnak.html

    More here - scroll down to #3 for a relevant video clip:

    https://www.je-parle-quebecois.com/videos/extrait-film-serie/le-top-5-des-sacres-quebecois.html

    /OT
     
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