Comments on Profile Post by Lyander

  1. Cellist88
    Cellist88
    Which is affected by the filter. I feel brands like chord, Schiit, etc all are on top of their filter game. Then like Apple, it’s mating hardware with software
    Apr 28, 2024
    JK47 likes this.
  2. Lyander
    Lyander
    @Cellist88 I don't equate ultrasonic tone identification with whether or not those same ultrasonics can't bollix stuff going on within the audible band, but I don't feel (tentatively) ascribing all audible differences between DACs to FR and saying the jury's out on time domain stuff mattering sits well with me. Happy to be proven definitively wrong though.
    Apr 28, 2024
    lithium likes this.
  3. lithium
    lithium
    Since this video is of academic interest only - I wanted to point out the causation bias. Just because he can hear to 21k does not mean that this is the explanation for the successful abx testing. These are 2 different observations, linking them together is a huge assumption.
    Apr 28, 2024
    penguins, yotacowboy, gsanger and 4 others like this.
  4. Lyander
    Lyander
    @lithium I am in full agreement, my saying DACs were all about FR was facetious, which tends to be my default mode of expression when I'm incredulous. hpdotcom is an invaluable source of information, but I notice that their editorial direction of late has been strongly in favour of the notion that everything can be distilled into FR. I would love for that to be the case, but I have trouble accepting it is all.
    Apr 28, 2024
    yotacowboy, zottel, Sqveak and 4 others like this.
  5. shotgunshane
    shotgunshane
    I’m not sure he’s actually testing dac outputs. It appears he’s testing a file upsampled 2 different ways by software. If so, this has nothing to do with two dacs.
    Apr 28, 2024
    gsanger likes this.
  6. Lyander
    Lyander
    @shotgunshane yep, out of the Holo Audio May. I got frazzled juggling conversations but the conflating of digital filters and DACs works well enough in the sense that if filters make a difference, DACs should make a difference. It does take architecture out of the equation however
    Apr 28, 2024
  7. shotgunshane
    shotgunshane
    Well, I thought the whole premise of the video was to test if 2 transparent dacs sound different. Instead it ended up being a test of software filters.
    Apr 28, 2024
  8. Lyander
    Lyander
    Haha! My brain missed that, goes to show i wasn't fully present. Well that's something worth taking note of.
    Apr 28, 2024
  9. JK47
    JK47
    What does the sultan of ASR have to say about all this?
    Apr 28, 2024
    Lyander likes this.
  10. Lyander
    Lyander
    @JK47 he hasn't heard about it yet. Think he's still recovering from listening to EDM at 120dBA.
    Apr 28, 2024
  11. Lyander
    Lyander
    (I will say as someone who has lower confidence in their listening skills than they might let on: I don't see how the earlier treble rolloff in FR on the hybrid linear/minimum phase filter on the BTR7 sounds hashier with longer treble decays than the same device's apodizing fast linear phase thing which has pre-ringing but shorter post; fast happens to extend further up in FR).
    Apr 28, 2024
  12. SoupRKnowva
    SoupRKnowva
    I don’t really understand his conclusion that it’s all cause of high frequencies at all. The assertion that that is the only difference in the filters isn’t explained. The main benefit of more advanced and longer filters is better transient reconstruction
    Apr 28, 2024
  13. rlow
    rlow
    Disappointed with this one. Glad he could hear the diff, but really wanted to see an actual DAC ABX test. Also the conclusion as to why he heard a difference seems kind of suspect without the proper followup test (if there even is one).
    Apr 29, 2024
    penguins and Lyander like this.
  14. SoupRKnowva
    SoupRKnowva
    He could potentially rule out the high frequency differences by low passing the original file at like 16k before the upsampling. not that I think there's much content up there anyways
    Apr 29, 2024
  15. Lyander
    Lyander
    Someone over on discord just pinged me with this video embedded and I just watched it in the background while dealing with other crud. Totally missed that the premise went from "ought transparent DACs make a difference?" to "do different filters sound different? (DUH)".

    Really curious that hpdotcom's going all-in on FR.
    Apr 29, 2024
  16. rlow
    rlow
    @SoupRKnowva That’s kind of my thought. Is there really anything up there other than mouse farts (and that wouldn’t that likely get drowned out by stuff lower down)?
    Apr 29, 2024
  17. SoupRKnowva
    SoupRKnowva
    I can sorta see that leap and why he made it Lyander. Being able to use the same dac for both is interesting and allowed him to do it all in the computer instead of using an abx box. and I can see the argument that if you can hear the difference between two filters that are both similarly "audibly transparent" according to measurebators that it would follow you could say the same about dacs.
    Apr 29, 2024
  18. Lyander
    Lyander
    @SoupRKnowva oh I agree and I think my brain gestalting all that together was in part because I was inclined to think the same. I've met some filter deniers over the years.

    Now, would the same filter work similarly between different DACs? Hah.
    Apr 29, 2024
  19. penguins
    penguins
    Going to repeat 2 things I've said here before:
    1. I suspect there's "other" information in a reconstructed signal that plots like THD+N, FR or CSD plots, or other commonly used plots don't fully capture or illustrate. Different DACs most likely handle this "other" differently, whether intentionally or inadvertently,
    Apr 29, 2024
    lithium and Lyander like this.
  20. Lyander
    Lyander
    ... Aaaaaand it's this "x factor" plankton sort of thing that makes it easy for others who have less context for things to look at discussions about the same from a distance and think it's bunk and hogwash. Gotta hear it first to believe it, and not everyone's got that opportunity.

    I can see WHY pseudo-objectivism is as appealing a school of thought as it is. It's exasperating, but it's no surprise it's caught on.
    Apr 29, 2024
    penguins likes this.
  21. penguins
    penguins
    2. There's also the question of how each individual hears and processes sound information (ie psychoacoustics). Not just the individual FR of our ears, or musical theory stuff like perfect pitch or rhythm, but also some audiophile things like sibilance, staging, timbre, etc.

    Combined with 1, I can believe that some people will hear differences and others won't. And it can change each time.
    Apr 29, 2024
    Lyander and lithium like this.