System Synergy - Special Sound

27
johnjen

atomicbob said: ↑
"I haven't tried polarity reversal with this setup yet. It sounded very good with more dimension and depth without it than the MSD192 with the phase reversal. That will be another day's experiment. I have a considerable backlog of experiments. No doubt, the MSD192 is an exceptional performer, even better at such a price point. Will want to compare the Bifrost MB to the MSD192."

I had anticipated that Gungnir Multibit would have bested the msd192 and to hear that the phase trick hasn't been applied yet means the difference will be all the more interesting...
JJ
johnjen, Oct 5, 2015

 

28
@Eric_C

Uberfrost > Ember > HD600
(Ember on high gain, high Z, with a GE 6DJ8)
How synergistic would you guys count this setup?


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2015-10-05 04.05.12 1.jpg

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Eric_C, Oct 5, 2015

 

29
Judeus

Well have to do some "synergistic research"
Judeus, Oct 5, 2015

 

30
@sashafuckinggrey

Can somebody explain me why there is a project sunrise in the setup when its basically aimed for low impendance cans?
sashafuckinggrey, Oct 9, 2015

 

31
johnjen

It's a mystery!
Until you hear for yourself…
JJ
johnjen, Oct 9, 2015

 

32
@sashafuckinggrey

Thank you, that was really helpful.
sashafuckinggrey, Oct 12, 2015

 

33
@atomicbob

sashafuckinggrey said: ↑
"Can somebody explain me why there is a project sunrise in the setup when its basically aimed for low impendance cans?"

It is not aimed for low impedance cans only. It has the following attributes which I find very useful and part of the system chain that produces good sound:

1. Non FeedBack (NFB) gain
2. Class A OTL output
3. selectable output resistance 1, 32 or 69 ohms
4. 4 - 350 KHz -3 dB bandwidth with 32 ohm load (can be better with higher impedance loads)
5. Power output capable of suitably driving 32 to 300 ohm impedance headphones
6. Will handle almost any 9 pin tube and most 8 pin tubes with an adapter socket
7. tube employed at what it does best - voltage gain
8. mosfets employed at what they do best - current gain
9. sounds very good in the system described in the original post

My reference system is an Eddie Current ZDSE, a Yggdrasil and a large library of cans of which my favorites are HD800, HD650, HD600, TH900 and AH-D5000.
atomicbob, Oct 12, 2015

 

34
@FlySweep

Bob, do you know what voltage the tubes are run at? The CTH runs tubes at 80v.. and the Valhalla 2 runs them at around 60v, I think.
FlySweep, Oct 12, 2015

 

35
@atomicbob

PS-III runs the tube at 24VDC. I was skeptical at first about such a low plate voltage. I spent time looking at tube plate characteristics. But the plate current requirement is so infinitesimal due to a nearly direct connection with the mosfet gate that it works quite well. Plate current appears to be approximately 400 uA.
atomicbob, Oct 12, 2015

 

36
@sashafuckinggrey

atomicbob said: ↑
"..."

Thank you, but i am still not getting something, it deals just around 100mw to HD 650 and i thought the synergy was meant with these cans included, but can it trully make hd 650 when the power is so low? Audio newb here.
sashafuckinggrey, Oct 12, 2015

 

37
@atomicbob

The Sennheiser HD650 has a sensitivity of 102 dB / mW. 100 mW can drive the HD650 to 122 dB SPL. That is VERY LOUD! Listening at a fairly loud 100 dB SPL average with music having a 10 dB SPL crest factor, which would want to produce 110 dB SPL on peaks, would only require between 0.63 mW average and 6.3 mW peaks. Far less demand than the 100 mW of which the PS-III is capable.
atomicbob, Oct 12, 2015

 

38
@schiit

FlySweep said: ↑
"Bob, do you know what voltage the tubes are run at? The CTH runs tubes at 80v.. and the Valhalla 2 runs them at around 60v, I think."

Valhalla 2 runs at 200V rail, 120V plate. Similar to Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2, except those amps use regulated HV supplies, while Valhalla 2 is RC-smoothed.

No starved-plate amps for Schiit.
schiit, Oct 12, 2015

 

39
@Eric_C

I don't think discussions on power have much meaningful bearing on volume, simply because getting adequate volume isn't an issue even for say, onboard PC amps.
In terms of synergy, it might be more relevant to question the adage that tube amps provide more voltage swing than SS, and whether this voltage swing is indeed suitable for high-Z dynamic headphones? That seems to be the general wisdom (and I know I've followed it).
Eric_C, Oct 12, 2015

 

40
@atomicbob

It always amazes me at how much Voltage, Current, Power, everyone thinks their headphones need to sound good. We are talking headphones that are very close to the human auditory system and capable of easily producing high, damaging, Sound Pressure Levels. Here is a chart that will allow comparison of various popular headphones. Note the Vpp and Ipp are for 110 dB SPL. VERY LOUD. For the dynamic headphones those parameters don't come even close to the limits of most headphone amps. In fact, having too much voltage or current available can raise the noise floor as nothing comes for free in design tradeoffs. Only the planars offer a bit of a challenge for voltage and current drive. Also note that the values calculated are for nominal impedance, ignoring any impedance bump(s).

Edited for clarification and to correct typos. Chart updated for labeling clarity.
atomicbob, Oct 12, 2015

 

PAGE 3 of the O.G. thread...

 

41
@sashafuckinggrey

And i always thought getting headphones loud doesnt mean its properly driven, hehe.
sashafuckinggrey, Oct 13, 2015

 

42
Marvey

There two sides of the argument: One is how much power do you really need? The other is more power is always better. In the end, it depends on the situation.
Marvey, Oct 14, 2015

 

43
Marvey

On a lighter and more on-topic note:


+ Sennheiser HD800 with mods (not pictured).

I think many of you guys know by now that I am not a big fan of the HD800s because pop recordings (I am a sucker for a good pop song - my way of pissing on classical snobs), which tend to have more treble energy, don't work well with those headphones. However, in this case, I would have the give the nod to the HD800 (modded of course) over the HD650. The Balancing Act is an easy-going laid-back amp. With the bloom and mellowness of the Electro Harmonic 300Bs, the HD650s don't quite work in this setup. BTW, the EH 300Bs, despite their low cost are pretty darn good 300B tubes. (I think several years ago, I may have written a 300B comparo on Changstar or Head-Fi comparing about half a dozen 300Bs.)

My regular setup is the EC ZDS, but the added refinement and increased resolution of the BA with the spaciousness and stage-depth of the high-frequency filament heaters scream for the use of the HD800s. I'm using a tall-glass 7N7 (with the H plate) on a adapter. The 7N7 is exactly the same thing as the 6SN7, but in a different package. This particular 7N7 is brighter, more sparkly and airier than the triangle plate short glass 7N7s. I chose this specific tube because the BA with the EH 300Bs can tend to be a bit too laid-back for my tastes. There actually are not that many types of 7N7s (look at the plates, not the brands) so that does make life much less neurotic. I hate tube rolling because we can easily be seduced into listening to tubes instead of listening to music. Personally, I have no patience for people who insist on listening to tubes.

But yeah, just a little insight into how I personally would set things up, and how different headphones will perform differently under different setups.
Marvey, Oct 14, 2015

 

44
@atomicbob

And now for something completely different, at the other end of the spectrum. Had this been my first listening station, I might never have been motivated to look further. A lot of engaging sound for not much money. It has my nearly full attention this evening.


The realism achieved with this system is scary for the modest investment required. Listening to Christian McBride "Shake and Blake" transports the listener to the studio, as one example. Sounds as if I'm working mic placement in the room. Every track I've auditioned has been far more realistic than any D-S DAC based system previous to this setup. However, I've not seen channel matching as excellent as in all three Schiit MB DACs before, either. So the channel matching may be a large contributor to the 2 channel realism.

Here is the component list of this system:

atomicbob, Oct 20, 2015

 

45
@atomicbob

Added component list and comments to MultiFrost + PS-III + HD650 system setup.
atomicbob, Oct 20, 2015