Why is Schiit hated by ASMR and Reddit?

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by Stuff Jones, Sep 4, 2019.

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  1. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    And you do that by asking SBAF?? I think the answer has already been outlined by Jason and others previously.

    Bottom line: Haters gonna hate

    Especially when you’re popular, and especially on Reddit and ASR. Same goes for SBAF, but just for different brands and products.

    This doesn’t take a meeting of the minds to figure out IMO. It’s the internet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  2. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I feel your post, views and thread are very partial (like everyone except me).

    SBAF members don't love every Schiit product. ASMR members don't hate every Schiit product. Reddit hate and love everything.
     
  3. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    No, I value 'reasonable' negative views.

    I can barely find agreeable or rethinkable arguments in either ASR or Reddit (I don't read them regularly though) -- I like some of the products received well there but NEVER for the reason they are beloved in asr or reddit. My take is (1) they don't actually listen with their ears; or (2) they rely on measurements they can't fully understand what the numbers mean.

    Plus, do you really think Schiit is agreed unanimously in SBAF? If so, I recommend you to go through every Schiit thread more carefully. Opinions and impressions are kinda rather continuously distributed than two-level discrete (i.e., yes vs no). For the example of Lyr 3 you mentioned, there are meaningful number of negative impressions by trusted ears. We're not the same. Hear differently. No surprise. I value all of them (with different weights respectively).

    Focus on reasoning. Even two of people like the same product. Reasoning and logic can be quite different. Don't oversimplify them as homogeneous 'like'. Some like may be closer to some dislikes/hates, just expressed differently. In this respect, it's highly interesting to follow logical flow of negative opinions you found in ASR or Reddit.

    Also note high correlation between ASR-Reddit (New post in ASR is often introduced and quoted in Reddit; Many forum members are active in both places).
     
  4. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Found one really illustrating example: Matrix X-Sabre Pro MQA

    ASR review (posted very recently): https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...bre-pro-mqa-best-audio-dac-in-the-world.8729/

    SBAF review 1: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...iew-stream-of-consciousness.7598/#post-249670

    SBAF review 2: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ream-of-consciousness.7598/page-4#post-258139

    SBAF review 3: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ream-of-consciousness.7598/page-4#post-263474

    Some may believe in or prefer Amir. That's fine. But do look at amazing degree of diversity in this forum, which I believe to characterize sbaf.

    Again, all likes are not the same. All dislikes aren't, either. It's fun of this subjective hobby.

    PS. while I am very positive with the mentioned product, Amir's post of x-sabre pro is almost a trash to me. Doesn't benefit me at all.
     
  5. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

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    I wrote the post before Jason's response obviously. And labeling someone or a group haters is often an intellectually lazy way to dismiss a real source of grievance or negative views. I genuinely wanted to understand the reason for the divergence in viewpoints rather than just assuming SBAF was right. This thread is helping.
     
  6. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    @Hands really nailed it. True scientist is willing to reconsider if results deviate from expectations. Repeatability is paramount for good science.

    anecdote on reliability - my lab has the following:

    magni 2 uber
    magni 3
    vali 2

    fulla
    fulla 2
    asgard
    jotunheim
    lyr 3

    modi MB
    bifrost (OG) x 2
    gungnir MB (OG -> A2)
    yggdrasil (OG -> A2)

    saga
    eitr

    My experience has been zero failures over several years with some DACs powered on 24/7.
    And my Focal Clears have not been damaged by Lyr3 during this time.

    Edited to correct missing word and add Focal Clear comment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  7. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

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    I know you're being facetious but that's kind of a weak pomo out to bias what was a sincere and unloaded question.

    I didn't claim that. It's obviously easier to type "SBAF" than "many people on SBAF", for example.
     
  8. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Your question is very loaded. Look at what you wrote a few minutes ago:
    1. "... the overwhelming SBAF positivity towards Schiit ..."
    2. "... an intellectually lazy way to dismiss a real source of grievance or negative views ..."
    The above describes your (biased) views about this site:

    SBAF (from which you appear to distance yourself) is overwhelmingly positively biased towards Schiit products, and intellectualy lazy (another word for stupid) when dismissing grievances or negative views about Schiit products.

    This shows that your perception of SBAF is fairly negative. In particular, SBAF overwhelmingly "shills" Schiit products. This is a round about way to make a pretty loaded and provocative claim considering your audience here.

    You are not being candid about it.

    The claims about Schiit products "blowing up" and "catching fire" almost remind me of what I used to randomly read on Head-Case about every which product not approved by KG. Which is bullshit and ironic. Do you have proof that this has actually happened? If so, what was the context?

    Many people in SBAF like Schiit products indeed. With differing views about every other Schiit product in particluar.

    Now, as far as "assemble my first proper HP rig". You are kidding, right? Is this you:
    https://www.head-fi.org/members/stuff-jones.171585/
    Come on dude, you've been through shit loads of headphones and IEMs since at least 2011. You should know what you want by now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  9. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    Enh, I think you're being unfair. He's saying that SBAF as a whole is generally positive about Schiit products and Schiit as a company, which is true. If you read nothing but SBAF, your general opinion about Schiit would be that they're nice folks who do a good job and make products that generally perform well at their price point. Yes, some people disagree about this or that product, but that's the general gestalt.

    Which is a legitimately different gestalt than you get on Reddit/ASR. It's not weird to wonder about that, I don't think. And if someone who's new to the headphone universe is seeing this weird disparity, "oh, those people are just a bunch of assholes, ignore them" isn't the world's most satisfying answer (especially when those other people are saying the same thing right back).

    I think the Lyr 3 is legitimately a thing here. Like, I don't think Schiit stuff is junk or unreliable or whatever, but at the same time, I'd seen enough complaints about Lyr 3 destroying headphones (including people like @Hands) to be a little nervous about it, and to wonder if there was a real problem there. I'm actually glad to hear @schiit say that they've made product changes to fix that failure case.
     
  10. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Except @Stuff Jones is not at all new to the headphone universe.

    I can agree that many people in SBAF are generally positive towards Schiit. That's is not exactly @Stuff Jones claim, which is that SBAF is "overwhelmingly" positive. We went through this before, on a thread about SBAF being Schiit shills or something. In that sense, this is a dead horse.

    If there is a particular problem, then start a thread about that particular problem, or participate on an existing one if needed.
     
  11. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    What the fuck. I just went to ASR for the first time to look at that review. There aren’t any subjective impressions...
     
  12. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Which is why they don’t like Schiit. They don’t care about listening to anything, only measuring them. The best measurements wins, period. Schiit doesn’t get the best measurements (for many of their most well reviewed products) compared to some cheap chi-fi alternatives therefore they are poorly engineered and not recommended.
     
  13. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    AFAIK Modi 3 is well liked across the board.
     
  14. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Because Amir is a deaf, dense, inattentive egoistical bonehead who believes that fixed sign wave measurements of digital audio gear is the end all be all and all aural differences between different products are related to his poor quantifications of their supposed performance rather than his own ears’ and brain’s perceptions of such. He has none but has the money to buy webhosting and many followers like him who are also deaf boneheads with money buying shitty overpriced dsp speakers and horrific Chinese audio gear that doesn’t even sound particularly pleasant.

    For an example of how fucking limited his CPUBenchmarks worldview is, consider the Apogee Quartet and the newer Elements. Both are from the same company, use the same ESS Sabre 9016 dac chips, have the same Apogee color, and the DA specs are the same except for the newer Elements have -114db for THD+N versus -113db for the earlier Quartet. That one dB difference and USB vs Thunderbolt does not explain the difference in sound or why the Quartet is grainy.

    So in short, he discounts natural observation, his measurements don’t really mean anything, they do not explain the differences between products, they do not correlate with inductive or deductive reasoning, and he can’t tell the difference between products without his toy that he barely knows how to use. His message boils down to “I’m a deaf bonehead so you must be deaf bonehead too or else you go against science and want to burn Galileo and huff hairspray!” So in short, he’s just another deaf internet retard exactly like all the other deaf internet retards saying that the Nwavguy crap and Behringer gear are just as good as whatever. Just be glad he hasn’t started trying to sue people pointing out how scummy he is yet like Uli Behringer did. Wait until the Chi-fi affiliate links kick in on Audio Science Review and you get a cease and desist from some Chinese industrial park...
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  15. YMO

    YMO Big Pooh & Buttcracker

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    I love Schitt's DACs more than their amps. Their amps are not joke thou.
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    A better way to think about this is why ASR does hatchet jobs? Reviewing original Bifrost DS (long OOP) and questioning why USB wasn't in the chassis (it was an option back then in 2011), measuring a Valhalla 1 (long OOP) with an obviously bad tube on one channel, not correcting typos in plots such as a Modi 2 indicated as a Modi 3, hiding how well the Jot (as an amp) actually measures by conveniently using the built-in multi-bit DAC instead of the AP-555 signal generator, etc. The list goes on.

    BTW, I don't think folks on ASR are anti-Schiit. There are a lot of Schiit gear owners there. Lots of Schiit owners on Reddit too.

    P.S. I do wish that Amir started to DIY stuff himself. I might help him to understand very simple relationships (measurements, subjective, or otherwise) in regards to gain and negative feedback. Too easy to call others incompetent engineers when one only has an AP-555.

    Finally, Schiit is easy to like or hate because the gear is easy to obtain. It's rather cheap, compared to say gear from Pass Labs or Dartzeel. Cheap equates to available. Available means lots of opinions. And opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  17. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Yes!

    No doubt this is some sort of hate post. And my impression of Amir is based on just one online conversation. But it went on... and on... and on... and on... Because Amir is a deaf, dense, inattentive egoistical bonehead. A pseudo-scientist powered by ego and self interest. And has no idea how to even take part in a conversation which features anything like logic. Whether he likes Schiit or not.

    So Why give a fuck about him and his forum? Don't know about Reddit, don't go there.
     
  18. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Poor @schiit must be like... but, but, Sol.....
     
  19. netforce

    netforce MOT: Headphones.com

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    But... how does it measure? Gotta see those measurements, thats the only thing that matters about a turntable!
     
  20. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Jesus motherfucking Christ on a unicycle how many times do we have to talk about Amir before we're all sick to death of it again?

    Would love humorous conversation about how Schiit's turntables are bound to be Sol-d out sooner rather than later given the value proposition though.
     
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