WTF Revisited: Sennheiser HD700 Stories, Review, and Measurements

One man's trash is another man's treasure The HD700 is still my overall #2 favorite of the headphones i've owned (with HD820 being #1 due to its isolation + big soundstage which works really well in my environment). The chances of my ever selling the HD700 are near zero. I haven't tried ZMF yet, but I am prob gonna try the Aeolus since I am hearing a lot of love for it from electronic music fans, so we will see if it can unseat the two Sennheisers.

Anyway, I am more hypothesizing on why I (and others) might like the HD700, I am not trying to convince anyone to like it. There are actually quite a lot of people who like them - but I agree it is a very polarizing headphone and I also agree it requires special care in matching gear (and I'd argue HD800 original needs gear match even moreso). This thread was made so I am adding discussion to it.

I listen mainly to electronic and ambient music, some other genres as well, but having a really big lively, yet spacey sound is very important for that genre; the almost 'reverb' the HD700 has that probably doesn't work well for other genres works fantastic for elec/ambient. I don't listen to Diana Krall, or jazz, or classical, thus having perfect tonality isn't high on my priority list.

It makes sense that the headphone that most people will like will probably be an average-sounding headphone - this logically makes sense since the average would intersect with the maximum amount of people. The HD700 definitely is not average-sounding, it has a weird FR curve and abnormally large/reverberating soundstage presentation. But I happen to think its great!

I also think its great that the community came up with a tweak that people liked more and that Sennheiser made the tweak official, that is really cool stuff. That doesn't mean they couldn't have released the HD800S tuning as the original HD800, though. With Sennheiser's R&D budget it's pretty clear if they wanted to lessen the 6khz peak they could have done that originally, but they wanted it in there. It's also kind of hard to fault them for the original tuning of the HD800 since the headphone became so immensely popular and was a gateway drug to high end headphones; I think the HD700 was less popular simply because it was very expensive yet it also wasn't the best model - its less bright and less picky than the hd800 original so the 6khz peak isn't the reason IMO since the popular HD800 also had it (plus more). Most people with high end gear probably bought the HD800 which only cost a few hundred more & ignored the HD700, and when the HD700 price dropped to $420 people with typical popular low end gear that is not a good match tried the HD700 and didn't like it because said gear didn't match well - that's my theory.

 

@insidious meme pics are gone but this thread documenting tak's extensive work exists: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...er-hd700-is-now-listenable-the-hd750-mod.142/

And Tyll's measurements of the same are somewhere out in the aether (never mind it was also in the above thread):



... but that's pedantry, yeah I have never gone out of my way to listen to the HD700 stock once and don't plan to because that treble balance is almost as offensive as that of the Pioneer SE Master1. Chalking this up to everyone having different preferences again, I guess.

 

I have more fun with "fixed hardware EQ". You know, trying different mixes of gear to get the right sound. A lot more expensive and less practical than using a equalizer; similar to how with a turntable people will use different cartridges and platter material types rather than just dialing in EQ - the experimenting is more fun.

Actually its most likely because I dislike most headphones in general! Worst sound in the world to me is "in your head" typical headphone sound. Would rather put on speakers than have to put up with that closed in type of soundstage.

 

Or maybe you are Ruined from Reality.

I'm still having a hard time how you like the HD700, those graphs of the HD700 scared me to death.

 

Most of the music I listen to is artificially-generated with synthesizers and samplers anyway, so "natural" FR curve isn't at the top of my list.

And, I consider the soundstage the first priority to sound "natural." In-your-head sound and perfect FR curve = unnatural to me. Where do you ever in real life naturally hear sound emanating from 1" away from your ears or in your head? Nowhere.

The resale value of the HD700 used is exactly what I paid for it new 4yr ago, and the resale value of the original HD800 used right now is actually more than I paid for it new 4 years ago. If they were truly both a POS that wouldn't be the case. Stuff with no demand depreciates, it doesn't stay the same value or increase in value over time.

 

How many times and via how many thousands of words are you going to say this until you're satisfied?

 

Until he stops being enabled to do so.

 

Unmodified with no EQ?

In a frequency sweep I can hear up to about 15khz before it starts to drop off which is about normal for my age.

I thought SBAF was about helping people find the best sound for *them* for their dollar, not some predetermined SBAF template? If I am telling you I tried HD600 (I did for 6 months at the same time I owned HD700) and found it horrendous because the soundstage was so small, would you recommend it anyway because HD6xx line is popular with forum regulars?

 

Ruined, if you care for soundstage, why you aren't doing speakers? Staging is overrated on headphones due to the nature of them anyway.

 

@Ruined I used to live with a roommate who used HD700 as his daily driver and liked them very much. To my ears, they were sharp and painful but he listens to music at VERY low volume. Do you happen to listen to your music at really low db? That's the only logical explanation I could think of other than severe hearing loss

Unless they're solely using these for gaming cans and NOT for music and enjoyment, no one in their sound mind and ears should recommend these atrocities.

 

That's a good question, and here is my answer.

I got into "hifi" around 25yr ago, and only 4yr ago did I start to use headphones as a primary listening source. Prior to that every headphone I had I disliked because of the staging. I still had nice headphones as a backup when speakers weren't available, if I recall back in the late 90s I had this sennheiser (if anyone could ID this I'd love to know the model) that sort of looked like a HD600 but it was all cobalt blue plastic with a plastic open backed grill, with nice velvet cushions. I think it was HD4xx something but I tried to find it online and couldn't. also had the hd380pro, hd600, and a bunch of others in between.

In summary, I disliked every headphone I ever owned sonically until hearing the HD700/HD800. Now the HD800 while it was really amazing was even too much for me with the equipment I had at the time, but the HD700 was a good compromise with its small size and less demanding amplifier needs. I now have better equipment that can handle HD8xx series though.

Why did I switch? Well, one problem is that with speakers you are stuck with the room acoustics, which is basically a never ending pit of money to rectify. And then when you move like I did recently, all of your hard work is destroyed. With headphones you can get your system dialed in and if you have to move then you get to take it with you. And with a family you can listen to headphones at reference level and not anger people or wake up little ones.

So right now in my life, headphones work better than speakers both with the HD820 they A) both shut out and keep in the sound B) sound almost like a speaker C) do not require the extensive room treatments speakers do

I don't listen to them at very low (but not blasting loud either), and I am not going to lie that there aren't times that they are sharp. But I prefer a moment of sharpness here or there over the music sounding closed in and compressed soundstage all the time as it does with most headphones I've used. I prefer to ride that edge rather than settling for something that sounds boring and small to me, I guess.

My point of asking that question was that even the HD800 (which most will say has achieved "legendary" status in the headphone world) is that many still need to EQ and/or modify that headphone to get along with it, and can't use it out of the box. I think HD700 just wasn't given the same courtesy because it was "second best," so most ignored it or have no problem crapping on it since it never had flagship status. I prefer to think of the HD700 as a portable HD800, that just has more sonic shortcomings because of its smaller size - but is also way more comfortable in fit than HD800 IMO.

I think there is truth that some things suck. Like a topping amp, I cannot see any redeeming value in as there are other amps that do everything better. But, if you can point me to a headphone of similar size and fit of the HD700 that also has a soundstage just as large as the HD700 that is readily available for purchase right now I would love to hear some alternatives. If there really aren't many, then I think you'd have to admit the HD700 at least in staging has something over its competitors. The HD8xx of course is better sounding than the HD700 but its also far larger and less comfortable in fit, so even the HD8xx doesn't fully replace the HD700 for the big soundstage sound in a smaller fit format.

 

I bet you never heard of a HD600 or HD650/HD6XX with a killer tube amp. Something like that would most likely make you say bye bye HD700. Those suckers have that soundstage that you like.

 

Well I might give the HD650 a shot again when I get the reportedly killer [or at least pretty darn good] tube amp I ordered the other day, which I am supposed to get in 6 months or so But I think I might do the Aeolus instead.

 

I would always be careful when trying a ZMF headphone, and this is coming from someone who likes them. Anyhoo, enough of me sidetracking here. Wait a few months and get a cheaper HD6XX.

 

@Ruined If you're so caught up on headstage just try out Out of Your Head or a crossfeed circuit like in the Phonitor amps or whatever the name of that hardware DSP box spatialization doo-dad was called. Then you can use a headphone with a decent tonal profile, superior dynamic ability, lower distortion, etc.

You think the HD700's have a nice soundstage for a headphone, we get it. What are you trying to get at with all this repetitive posting? Nobody's going to change their mind about this garbage no matter how much you like them and repeat why you like them. If you enjoy them, that's great. Go listen on your own and stop posting the same shit over and over again and cluttering up the feed. This thread stopped being interesting many pages ago, and every time I see it pop up on the recent feed with your avatar I roll my eyes. At least contribute some new thoughts with every post.