ZMF Verite Closed

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Vtory, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. dematted

    dematted Friend

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    "Ask not what SBAF can do for you but what you can do for SBAF". I've found it's best to first try to contribute meaningfully to the forum and get a sense of the culture here before hopping in and asking people if they can do favors for you. That's likely why you're getting dislikes: don't take them too personally, by the way. They're meant more as nudges in the right direction than anything maleficent.
     
  2. Rowethren

    Rowethren Acquaintance

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    You ignored the rules and haven't introduced yourself on the correct thread plus you are filling the thread with random posts...
     
  3. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    I am being very sincere here with this analogy: You just wandered into a bar where no one knows you and demanded to taste someone's microbrew beer while complaining about it not being available in your local grocery/liquor store. During a pandemic, no less. Can you really not see how unreasonable your actions are?

    This is a place of incredible information and generosity, but not to any random person. If you are willing to be a contributing part of the community, you can find everything you are looking for. If you remain focused on what you want and nothing else, you will get nothing but a pile of dislikes and probably a ban. I hope you choose to be a part of the community.
     
  4. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    Been analysing the Verite Closed with Universe leather pads all day and I think I got the gist of it.

    I wanted a do it all comfy closed headphone to be a HD650 sidegrade and NHD20 upgrade.

    The overall good:
    Easily the most open feeling closed headphone even above the NHD20 and HD250, very much an out of head type of stage and does a convincing hall/room acoustic image.
    Extremely forgiving while having moderate detail and sparkle, even with a bright amp/setup it kept its intended tune, at the same time even modest amplification will sound great.
    Gutsy low end with plenty of presence especially in the mid bass, I do like the rumble with pads of a more neutral tuning.
    For the weight of 700grams+ for ironwood it's easily the most comfortable of the heavyweights, LCD-4, HEDD, pad pressure is spot on, with the pilot pad they have a large audeze cushy feel without drawbacks.
    Excellent isolation from the outer world, really as good as it can get, almost no leakage.

    The I'm not sure yet:
    Sub bass is missing with the majority of the punch in the mid. This is part of the ZMF tuning as I've heard it on other models but my preference is for a balanced low end response with palpable impact to 30Hz. Fairly similar to an LCD-3 low end with less focus, cosy like a warm blanket which was my preference once upon a time but no longer. Perhaps the verite pads would be more up my street. What I will say, low end of this type usually bleeds into the mids yet this isn't the case here.

    Sparke and imaging is above average which for a closed can means it's spectacular. Detail is there but a stripped down simple presentation, a more technically capable headphone will have a more complex presentation of high frequency vibration creating a more convincing audio scene. It starts to get hazy with multiple fast instruments but not obnoxious and doesn't take much out of the enjoyment. Simple instruments do sound good and convincing, jazz seems particularly suited, an acoustic guitar is a pleasure.

    Mids have very good tone even if a touch grey, super smooth and good but not great detail. I wanted more depth and complexity in voices, most headphones have rather flat vocal imaging, even the Utopia didn't do it convincingly and why I didn't keep it despite the technical prolificacy.

    Listening to various music, the Verite has a great sense of cohesion despite the various niggles, it does a good job of making you forget about technical things and just sit back and enjoy the music and various songs but I never found it engaging nor did it grab my focus.

    The bad:
    The amp/cable setup had less impact than I'd like. On say a HD650 switching between a Project Ember, BH Crack and my type 10 parafeed amp the differences are extremely obvious and cable rolling had a profound impact even being a deal break, a silver cable with a bright setup won't do.
    The Verite C doesn't really care about the amp, moving between the same amps had much less audible impact than I'd like, same with tube rolling, this is good because you don't need an expensive setup but it's not ideal from a scaling point of view. I cannot infuse the Verites with DHT magic and that's a shame. Cable rolling was the same story, with the same Norne S3 silver cable I couldn't move it far from the default tune. Pad rolling has a bigger impact than anything IMO. NDH20 scales much more and in certain areas does overtake the verite with the right setup.

    Pads are an issue for me, buying all the different types to find the goldilocks one won't do, it would be cool to have a trial set of all pads for a fee. I prefer the Universe just because of the slight angle, the flat Auteur doesn't form a proper seal around my weird head.

    Glasses take away from the low end, in fairness It makes them more balanced but there's a slight weird mid gap because of the seal break, I have smaller thinner frame set which don't break the seal nearly as much (2mm vs 3.5mm)

    Best closed headphones with a simple setup and very cool overall but not my cup of tea.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  5. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    I have noticed this, and I believe it mostly has to do with HP's inability to do real stereo 'stage'. That said I thought that the Monkey Pod VC I had had a real 'congestion' (flatness is at least an aspect of this I think) in voices, particularly female. Utopia is better, but lacks a touch of inner note density (to vaguely put it) that the VC did a little better with. Flatter pads helped the VC in the vocal region, but took away other things so I stuck with the Universe most of the time...
     
  6. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    This is pretty shocking to me. I thought the NDH20 was borderline awful no matter what I paired it with. I’d never put it in the same galaxy as the Verite.
     
  7. will_f

    will_f Friend

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    Everyone hears the same thing. They just hear it differently. Difference in gear, musical taste, age, hearing loss, shape of head, ears and ear canals, glasses, etc. all have their effect. We all have different brains too. I try to look for reviewers who have the same preferences I have since they’re more likely to hear something close to what I hear. A lot of reviewers swear the Auteur pads sound awesome on the VC. I think they sound like ass, but that’s the way it is sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  8. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    The Neumann is a funny one, it's very picky of not only the amp but the dac as well, lower end gear makes it quite horrible. It's taken the Wavedream extremely well and does give me excellent vocal depth in the typical Sennheiser fashion especially when driven by DHT tubes*. I prefer it tone wise as well, excellent isolation with leather pads on par with the Verite. It doesn't have the crazy wide stage, nor the weight behind the low end or the smoothness but I prefer its more realistic treble and mids and why I like it more overall on the right setup with particular tubes.

    In the end I'm a Sennheiser whore and the NDH20 is more up my street.

    *I know DHT tubes is directly heated tube tubes, just like the ATM(automated teller machine) machine
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  9. YtseJammer

    YtseJammer Almost "Made"

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    +1

    To be honest with you, I was planning to sell my pair of VC before getting the Universe Hybrid pads. I know we all have different ears and tastes, but like you, I can's stand the VC with the Auteur pads.
     
  10. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    Earpads are especially important and more finicky in closed headphones for both users and for getting measurements. The lack of "room size" makes every seal break, positional shift, foam density etc etc all the more important. So with our closed headphones you're more likely to see/hear of people having vastly different preferred pads than with the open headphones where the consensus will be more similar. Anatomy changes, glasses/no glasses, hair cut, listening volume etc etc all shift the preferred closed headphone earpad a lot, and more than they will in an open headphone.

    This is compounded by the fact that our closed headphones are actually closed with the bare minimum venting.

    Edit - I do think the auteur and universe pads of one sort are a good place to start, usually closed owners find an iteration of one of those two quite agreeable.
     
  11. will_f

    will_f Friend

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    That explains a lot. I was wondering why I liked all the pads I tried on the Auteur but felt the VC would go from awesome to awful depending on the pads. Any idea what other pads to try on the VC if I like the Universe pads (I apologize for asking a question you probably have answered many times)?
     
  12. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    The universe, Be2 and verite pads all utilize the same ear volume size and play with the ear positioning from the driver, so the logical place to try would be the Be2 pads.

    The auteur pads have an entirely different ear volume, people who like auteur would want to try Eikon pads.
     
  13. will_f

    will_f Friend

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    Maybe an idea for the loaner program. I think it would be safe enough. I was involved with a research project on COVID survival and the transmission risk is negligable after 2 or 3 days at room temperature. (Log 2 reduction every 24 hours)

    The pads would wear out fairly fast though with frequent changes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  14. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

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    Much like how there is an eartip exchange thread on the FS section, it would be awesome if there were a ZMF pad swap section (or maybe ZMF pad loaner section). So many ZMF owners here, there will likely be enough options for everyone. I know I have 7 sets of pads myself (between my 2 ZMFs) and I imagine that's fairly normal.
     
  15. will_f

    will_f Friend

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    If we each donated 1-2 sets of pads we don’t like, there would be a ton of pads to choose from. I like the idea of an exchange thread better though- less administrative hassle for the SBAF gear manager(s).
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  16. rott

    rott Secretly hates other millenials - Friend

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    Make sure there's a good way to identify which pads are which for a potential loaner, can be hard to distinguish.

    Going forward if an identifiable symbol could be permanently attached (or stitched on) that would help as a convenience.
     
  17. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

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    I think we would need to keep this between the people swapping pads. An ongoing exchange of something as small as pads is too trivial yet time-consumimg to involve admins in.

    I keep mine in separate unsealed baggies which works great, but I think something like marking each pad with a paint pen would work better. I trust myself to not mix them up, not sure if I trust everyone else not to mix them up. A paint pen seems like it wouldn't effect sonics in any way.
    Someone on another site recommended using a black marker. They said you can see it if you look closely at it, but otherwise it doesn't get in the way. I think something like a paint pen would stand out more and be more foolproof.
     
  18. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I have no less than 8 extra sets of zmf pads I'm not using. The problem is, I generally have no idea which is which. I never took the time to label them, now I don't know what they are.

    For me, as an isolated example, it doesn't really matter. I roll the pads until I find something I like best, then I just stick with that. It does make loaning them to people problematic though, as I don't know what I gave them.
     
  19. Mr_HiFi

    Mr_HiFi Rando

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    To those who own the verite C, if you could keep one other pair which would it be and why?
     
  20. Erroneous

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