Audio Science Review Review

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Aug 30, 2020.

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  1. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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    Maybe a little more thought should have gone into branding the company for English speakers. "Topping" has always made me think of "cupping". Urban Dictionary link (slightly NSFW): https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cupping

    I bet a bunch of ASR readers have "Topping stacks" proudly displayed on their desks in open-plan offices. Must be a hoot for their coworkers to walk by and notice.
     
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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Building Magnis part time because it's peaceful.

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    That was the initial premise to attract the initial audience - a quite rapid one at that. ASR early on captured a significant portion of the NWAVGUY adherents, who were aimless and lost after NWAVGUY crossed the veiled.

    After ASR got folks hooked on SINAD (specifically at 1kHz 0dbFS), he worked with Topping/SMSL to put them on the map. The spiel was that SINAD*. The rest is history. Topping now makes ever more expensive DACs with ever higher SINAD, of which according to ASR dogma we cannot hear (anything past 110db SINAD is transparent), to sell to people who have money. It's like the book Animal Farm.

    *initially "Amir-bits", i.e. his screwed up non-bandwidth limited linearity measurements
     
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  3. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Good conversation starter. Might've gotten some of them laid.
     
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  4. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    So you mean to tell me ASR is a marketing site masquerading as a measurement science site?
    I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.
     
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  5. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    He also doesn’t understand the sampling theorem and Windows audio stack he claims to have fixed being the Al Gore of Direct Sound. Like the Wahhabis and Biblical literalists, he also believes that his modern beliefs were how people thought in the digital dark ages, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Whatever they thought, it wasn’t want the Saudi and Iranian muftis claim now. It couldn’t have been. Especially given that the 90s digital gear that still sounds good was overbuilt to all hell and very expensive, the opposite of ASR. Unlike the dark ages, we can go back and read what boomers and Gen X thought about digital in the 80s and 90s. It’s either rightful praise or damnation.

    The most ardent internet objectivists and apologists for bad dsp dismiss the sampling theorem they are largely ignorant of. They go by SNR at 1khz and smoothed frequency response plots yet deny that quantization and quantification themselves produce a distortion unfound in the natural world of analog wave forms. They deny that hard breakup of undamped drivers causes audible imd. They dispute what audibility means.

    You also need the refute the myths of “high definition” digital audio. There is no such thing as resolution in a series of sinc functions added together with a low pass. The music industry is full of shit while continuing the same bad mastering processes they have for decades. Bad tape dubs, slammed limiters, leaving the massive high shelf intact on a tape copy in case it was dubbed further to keep any high end, quantization of music to a grid (groove can’t exist in a grid. It’s impossible. older techno and golden age rap was guys playing drum machines by hand), beating the same shit to death to decades, the massive recent commercial exploitation of classic rock to sell crap. If they can’t get the rights to the recordings themselves, they’ll get the publishing rights by throwing money at someone and commission a shitty cover. Disneyfication at work.

    These 192 kHz recordings have little use beyond warping and stretching. The best modern DSP performs scales all the functions contained within to the optimal sample rate needed to perform them by finding the lowest common multiple. Unfortunately we’ve had over a quarter century of bad digital processing ruining the sound of popular music for portable CD players, MP3 players, and now phone speakers. The modern trend is to kill the air so it doesn’t get dirtied up by the imd and codecs. It can’t if it’s not there to begin with.

    All the sample rate and bit depth convey are the nyquist limit frequency and the theoretical noise floor. Most modern music hitting look ahead limiters could be presented with a lower bit depth without any real issue. Clarity can only be found in what comes before and after because you cannot listen to samples
     
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  6. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Such a weird crowd over there. I thought a large part of the audience there was about spending the absolute minimum you need to spend to reach inaudible levels of distortion, because beyond that all DACs and amps sound the same. And yet repeatedly I’ve seen people defending deceptive or non-value oriented business practices and showing incredible deference to companies simply because they are companies. I can’t tell if they internet libertarian types or Topping sock puppets, or maybe a libertarian/sock puppet circle jerk.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  7. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    And with it a good portion of any musical emotion, the connection between the musicians. It sounds dead.

    It seems so pathetic to chase .000000000001% THD+N when as you say the squashed lifeless dynamic range reduced music could be played with adequate satisfaction on a 12 bit DAC.
     
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  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Amir can’t hear these subtle harmonic distortions anyway with his preferred both cheap and ORFAS gear. Massive THD, low headroom, unrepairable electronics, disposable public address equipment, and cheap distorted drivers.

    Then he has the nerve to shit on or sideline the vertically integrated manufacturers who can provide low distortion gear at a price the average person with a job can afford even if they might have to skip a vacation. Those available in the USA are Yamaha, Dynaudio, Focal, and ATC. For other companies to provide the same component quality, they’d have to charge more money because of more middlemen and lack of OEM focus. The 50 Danes at Scan-speak aren’t cranking out Revelators all day. They need to charge 500 a pop retail to make it worthwhile for them to lift their fingers and make one instead of their more workman components.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  9. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

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    It is a good question actually. Perhaps I’m just a socialist shit disturber lol. I generally try to use a common sense approach to things, and like to call out BS when I see it. There are a lot of intelligent people at ASR that are scared of saying obvious things for the fear of retribution by self-appointed cyber-thugs. I am not, so I call things as I see them.

    I have no problem with any company making money and using various marketing tactics including social media platforms like forums. However, if reps of these companies are there, I’ll ask them the types of questions that other people are afraid to for some reason. I’ve done it with Topping, Schiit and JDS. Sometimes they answer, sometimes they do not. That’s fine. People can draw their own conclusions. What is gross are the militants that attack me for even daring to ask the question. This type of behavior should be actively discouraged by the admins.
     
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  10. Johnston98

    Johnston98 Acquaintance

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    Reading ASR reviews is like watching the Jerry Springer show. There is very little educational value, but the comments/arguments are darn entertaining.

    He calls out Zach from ZMF for not being able to design a competent headphone. Craps on Abyss, Focal, etc... and hints at how they can "fix" the respective headphone. His hubris is wildly amusing.

    Amir wants to be the guru for transparent, low distortion equipment at a low cost. Yet his main 2 channel system consists of a pair of $10K Mark Levinson monoblocks, $2K Matrix DAC, and $25K Revel towers. I'm pretty sure he's not using zip cord and amazon basic interconnects either.
     
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  11. Woland

    Woland Almost "Made"

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    I find myself 'unwatching' this thread after every post because it is so negative and depressing.
     
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  12. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Topping must have a headphone coming out soon…
     
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  13. Pancakes

    Pancakes Almost "Made"

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    I bet it has .001 THD at 114db. :headbang:
     
  14. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Facebook Friend

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    I'm not sure if I'd dare to wear an electrostat from Topping though.
     
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  15. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    LOL. I'll be the biggest Amir/Topping stan if they achieved that.
     
  16. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    Assured to be a shocking experience.
     
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  17. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    It'll probably blow up amplifiers...
    ...or heads.
     
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  18. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    I can see the ad copy now "Topping Headphones.... Guaranteed to blow your mind!"
     
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  19. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Just imagine the Amazon support tickets for that.

    “I see the Topping Electrostatic Headphones killed your husband. We can offer you a partial refund and $10 in ebook credits to use with your all new Kindle!”
     
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    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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